Grinder Epiphany with the Baratza Sette 270

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
uilleann
Posts: 14
Joined: Nov 05, 2016, 2:55 pm

Postby uilleann » Nov 06, 2016, 9:07 pm

I am about 30 espressos into this grinder and I was getting some major variations trying to find the best grinder settings. Same coffee beans, always a 20.1g bean load. Always get 19.9-20.0g in the portafilter but look at some of these data points.

Grind setting 25 sec shot wt grams
10D 35
10F 34
10G 53
10G 48
10H 49
11A 33
11B 54
11C 41
11C 43
11E 42
11E 46

This was unnerving as with the Rocky I could set 6 and I would get a 38-42g shot every time. And it did not make much difference what my pattern of tamping and shaping was.

But I think I have found that if I pay A LOT of attention to repeating my MO each time the final output is more consistent. So I am thinking that there is something about the quality of this grind that is more sensitive to your MO.

Is that possible or is it just that this grinder is not repeatable?

samerino92
Posts: 10
Joined: Sep 29, 2016, 10:54 pm

Postby samerino92 » Nov 07, 2016, 1:41 am

Are you stopping your shots at blonding, or at a specific number of seconds maybe?

It would probably be easier to decipher if you stop your shots at the same weight every time and see exactly how much variance there is with time.

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uilleann
Posts: 14
Joined: Nov 05, 2016, 2:55 pm

Postby uilleann » Nov 07, 2016, 3:28 am

I have the pid stop at 25 sec and am setting the grind so that I get a 40g shot. I could bypass the pid and shut it down at 40 g. I am not sure about the point that it "blonds". Normally my shots are very dark brown for a couple seconds, then tan/brown for a few more seconds, then tan for 20 seconds or so, and then a lighter tan that I usually see around 30 seconds or so. I might be off on those times as i never record color changes.

lagoon
Posts: 107
Joined: Jan 08, 2010, 1:25 am

Postby lagoon » Nov 07, 2016, 3:45 am

I would suggest put the scale away for a while.

Observe the pour and look at the stream. Read the blonding point.

Taste each shot. Coffee is a sensory game - you can't taste with a spreadsheet!

TheJavaCup77
Posts: 258
Joined: May 16, 2014, 5:47 am

Postby TheJavaCup77 » Nov 07, 2016, 3:55 am

Lock the yield and dose...
Adjust grind and check the time it takes to reach the yield... (make sure you purge after an adjustment)

____

To keep the test valid..
Keep the same baskets..
Keep the machine settings the same all the time...
Tamp in a consistent manner
Distribute properly all the time..

____

Taste all shots and pick out the shot that tastes the best....

____

The above is our primary dialling in method...
Our secondary is to adjust temperature depending on taste
Maybe even swap our VST's to IMS (to get a diff TDS that works... higher extraction doesnt always benefit certain coffee's.. sometimes lower extraction would better benefit a coffee more than one another)
We would only change yield... not dose... we only pick a dose that extracts the most evenly... in the basket that we're using...
Yield is changed depending on taste.. (it still depends on us to taste every shot when adjusting this one variable.. and we pick the best tasting yield)
It could be as complex or as simple as you want. It's the choice of the barista.

samerino92
Posts: 10
Joined: Sep 29, 2016, 10:54 pm

Postby samerino92 » Nov 07, 2016, 11:07 am

One possibility could be that the burrs need to be seasoned a bit? I don't have my sette yet, but I have a couple pounds of old coffee ready for seasoning. (I'm not sure if a couple pounds would be enough, but I figure it's better than nothing.)

mike guy
Posts: 111
Joined: Aug 02, 2016, 10:46 am

Postby mike guy » Nov 07, 2016, 11:26 am

lagoon wrote:I would suggest put the scale away for a while.

Observe the pour and look at the stream. Read the blonding point.

Taste each shot. Coffee is a sensory game - you can't taste with a spreadsheet!


I can't disagree with this enough. While taste should be the final evaluation, if you are looking to improve consistency, the scale is the most important diagnostic tool there is. Taste will tell you if it's good. The scale will tell you how to make it good again.

Espresso is about repeatable recipes. Blonding point determining the shut off point without knowing the output of a dose isn't the same every time.

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ds
Posts: 465
Joined: Mar 26, 2013, 10:08 am

Postby ds » Nov 07, 2016, 11:27 am

It could also possibly be caused by the burr wobble, its something to check.

CSME9
Posts: 316
Joined: Jun 02, 2005, 10:10 pm

Postby CSME9 » Nov 07, 2016, 11:46 am

uilleann wrote:I am about 30 espressos into this grinder and I was getting some major variations trying to find the best grinder settings. Same coffee beans, always a 20.1g bean load. Always get 19.9-20.0g in the portafilter but look at some of these data points.

Grind setting 25 sec shot wt grams
10D 35
10F 34
10G 53
10G 48
10H 49
11A 33
11B 54
11C 41
11C 43
11E 42
11E 46

This was unnerving as with the Rocky I could set 6 and I would get a 38-42g shot every time. And it did not make much difference what my pattern of tamping and shaping was.

But I think I have found that if I pay A LOT of attention to repeating my MO each time the final output is more consistent. So I am thinking that there is something about the quality of this grind that is more sensitive to your MO.

Is that possible or is it just that this grinder is not repeatable?


I think the Sette burrs need to season, they normally settle in after burr break in. You mentioned your Rocky pulls some good shots-I also have a Rocky I use on/off for espresso, mine performs very well, and shots taste good. Rocky's seems to get beat up on the forums a lot but in my usage it has done very well.

Mrboots2u
Posts: 446
Joined: Dec 25, 2013, 9:53 am

Postby Mrboots2u » Nov 07, 2016, 11:52 am

You make no reference to taste ...how are they tasting ?
Id stop by weight , note time for sure , but dont let that be the factor that stops the pour ( or blonding IMHO )
Taste the shot I dint think anyone would advocate not adjusting grind or beverage weight without tasting , but if its 2-4 seconds out and tastes good , then I'm not sure what the problem is , with the coffee or the grinder .
Number are simply measure ( dose in and out ) you can't taste em , i agree , they do let you adjust based on something more quantifiable than lets say blonding . Blonding is still a measure , just not one I could simply repeat and get tasty shots , or use as a really useful communication point to other people .
All above is jut my opinion , if you can get blonding to work for you getting a balanced tasty cup each and every time , then all power to you . Personally I could not .