Nino takes 2.8 sec to grind a 14g double.

another_jim wrote:I keep wondering who's sillier; the grinder manufacturer's who keep converting grinders designed for dosers to doserless, or the people who keep buying them. Is there any grinder originally designed to operate with a doser that is better without one?

This is harsh, even for April Fool's. Define "better". Less clumpy grinds? Sure, that's the one clear benefit that a doser provides in a home setting: it helps break up clumps.* Otherwise, I prefer doserless designs, even the retrofits. Doserless grinders are quieter, less wasteful, and less messy than dosered grinders - all factors that are of much greater significance in the home setting than a busy commercial environment.

The basic problem is not dosered vs. doserless, it's the poor design of the exit chute from the burr chamber on most commercial grinders. A horizontal chute, with or without a wire grid, practically guarantees some grind buildup and compression, resulting in chunks (or in some cases, coffee cubes ). A better design would not cause chunks in the first place.

* BTW, I know of at least one other way to address this problem.

Getting off-topic here, but John's post did make me wonder: Has anyone ever tried reorienting their Mazzer so the chute faces downward at a 45 or 90 degree angle? The primary concerns would be:

1. Performance of the motor in a non-vertical orientation
2. Devising some kind of stand to hold the grinder in the proper position
3. Keeping the beans feeding consistently

Just some thoughts for you doserless fans. Personally, I love the fluffy distribution I'm getting from my tweaked Mazzer doser.

Ryan

dsc wrote: ... Yes the grinds are pushed through the grid, but I have no clumping problems ...

I can't really agree with you here Jim, I think the funnel works very well ...

The funnel is great. It collects the shot you ground the last time perfectly. The shot you ground this time is behind that grid.

RapidCoffee wrote:Doserless grinders are quieter, less wasteful, and less messy than dosered grinders - all factors that are of much greater significance in the home setting than a busy commercial environment.

I disagree on most of these counts. The only noise difference would be operating the doser (some clack louder than others), but as far as mess and waste goes I find that I have less mess and less waste using my doser grinders that with the doserless. For disclosure, my Mazzer doser has some simple modification so that it sweeps very clean and I have been loading per shot and grinding through completely which also helps to virtually eliminate waste.

RapidCoffee wrote:* BTW, I know of at least one other way to address this problem.

yea yea yea......we know, we know

But I think this is relevant in another way....I feel like the WDT funnel helps me keep mess to a minimum with either a doser or doserless grinder. I have owned both doser and doserless-designed grinders as well as having modified a doser grinder to be doserless. In all cases I have found the WDT funnel to be very helpful in reducing mess and waste.


As for grounds behind the screen of a Mazzer doserless....these can also be brushed out if done carefully and with the right type of brush. When I was using a doserless Super Jolly I was able to reduce waste to a minimum just like I do now with other grinders. I prefer the dosers because brushing the chute is much less of a PITA.


Of course the Mahlkoenig eliminates much of this altogether. It is a freakishly quiet coffee dispenser that leaves very little (if any) coffee in the chute. I have one of he buttons set up for a short pulse to clear the burr area, this causes waste from keeping the hopper loaded but that's a small price IMO for the added convenience. The downside of this one is that it is definitely more messy than my doser grinders.

JonR10 wrote:I disagree on most of these counts. The only noise difference would be operating the doser (some clack louder than others), but as far as mess and waste goes I find that I have less mess and less waste using my doser grinders that with the doserless. For disclosure, my Mazzer doser has some simple modification so that it sweeps very clean and I have been loading per shot and grinding through completely which also helps to virtually eliminate waste.

As for grounds behind the screen of a Mazzer doserless....these can also be brushed out if done carefully and with the right type of brush. When I was using a doserless Super Jolly I was able to reduce waste to a minimum just like I do now with other grinders. I prefer the dosers because brushing the chute is much less of a PITA.

Of course I was referring to the noise of the doser lever going THWACK-THWACK-THWACK. Grinding noise will be similar, with or without a doser. I have tried most of the doser mods, and remain convinced that some grinds are always retained in the doser. I have never tried a wire screen over the chute, so grinds retention in the chute is the same - except that, with some (non wire grid) doserless mods, it's easier to brush out the chute.

I realize that I'm in the minority on the doser vs. doserless issue. So what else is new?

JonR10 wrote:Of course the Mahlkoenig eliminates much of this altogether. It is a freakishly quiet coffee dispenser that leaves very little (if any) coffee in the chute. I have one of he buttons set up for a short pulse to clear the burr area, this causes waste from keeping the hopper loaded but that's a small price IMO for the added convenience.

Let's see: fast, quiet... and doserless. I'd like to hear more about the burr and exit chute design.

portamento wrote:Getting off-topic here, but John's post did make me wonder: Has anyone ever tried reorienting their Mazzer so the chute faces downward at a 45 or 90 degree angle? The primary concerns would be:

1. Performance of the motor in a non-vertical orientation
2. Devising some kind of stand to hold the grinder in the proper position
3. Keeping the beans feeding consistently

A couple of years ago, someone posted a pic of a Mazzer on an inclined board (#2 above) on CG. Sorry, I don't have the time to search for it right now...

portamento wrote:Getting off-topic here, but John's post did make me wonder: Has anyone ever tried reorienting their Mazzer so the chute faces downward at a 45 or 90 degree angle? The primary concerns would be:

1. Performance of the motor in a non-vertical orientation
2. Devising some kind of stand to hold the grinder in the proper position
3. Keeping the beans feeding consistently

Just some thoughts for you doserless fans. Personally, I love the fluffy distribution I'm getting from my tweaked Mazzer doser.

Ryan

You don't need to do any of this. I polished the inside of the chute on my major and the grounds fly out like a sand blaster. My SJ did this for the first few grams with a clean chute but then began to "extrude". I don't know if the difference was due to the slower grinding speed, the unpolished chute, or the combination. This property makes the Major ideal for a doserless design.

Rapidcoffee wrote:I realize that I'm in the minority on the doser vs. doserless issue. So what else is new?

We have this argument a lot ... whenever somebody's doserless grinder, no matter how grand the grinder itself, starts tossing chunks. What would be new is having this argument when someone complains about their new dosered grinder not working right.

And again, my complaint is about companies converting very good doser grinders to half-assed doserless ones, not about them building doserless grinders from scratch. This Robur-E is just another exhibit in the rogues' gallery

Sorry to beat a dead horse ... but it's a Robur, and it's blowing chunks I couldn't resist.

networkcrasher wrote:I'm not sure if I read correctly - you didn't polish the throat on the SJ, but did on the Major?

Yeah, that's right; sorry I wasn't more clear. It took about an hour: dremmel with a grinding stone, 3 levels of sand paper, then polishing. I didn't open up the throat any more than necessary to get rid of 95% of the casting defects. Again, not sure it would work for any other grinder, but it sure makes for a clump-free doserless grinder. You can even insert the doserless device of your choosing inside the doser and keep a more-or-less stock appearance and eliminating most of the fabrication issues. The doser handle can still provide an elegant method to provide a mechanical jolt to the doser if any grinds get stuck to the side of the funnel due to static.

I have emailed the vendor regarding it, in particular to see if I can source a new set of burrs on Mazzer. I imagine a relatively small imperfection on the burrs could make a large difference judging from the large performance difference in stock Mini-E burrs, SJ burrs and Duramill burrs.

I'll empty it out again today and see how 'smooth' the inside of the chute is, but I don't think that would explain the speed, just perhaps the lumps.

networkcrasher wrote:On that note, am I the only person who thinks the funnel looks misaligned in that picture? On the left looks to be the backing plate on the chassis. My SJ has no blockage between the funnel and the throat, other than the grid.

Great observation, but unfortunately I just had a look and the RHS of the funnel is smoothly aligned with the RHS of the exit chute. I would just appear that the funnel hole is a little larger than the chute exit, which is no drama.

Thanks all.