EtzMAX grinder, rotating outer burr weight/time based grinder

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RikC
Posts: 263
Joined: 7 years ago

#1: Post by RikC »

Burr manufacturer Etzinger from Lichtenstein has announced it's first grinder: the etzMAX. To be shown to the public the 15th of June at the World of Coffee 2017 conference. Deja-vu? Off-course, Etzinger has been manufacturing burrs for Baratza among others for a long time now including the popular Sette series. And it is clearly a similar machine: The controls are in the same place and the weighing system is from the same supplier for the weighing version. Apperently Baratza will develop for the mass market and Etzinger will launch equipment for prosumer/professional purposes.

A weighing grinder with the same working principle but now made to high-end specs and a full metal housing (see the spec sheet) which will reduce noise? I'm already sold :mrgreen: I've owned a Sette but sadly the motor had to be repaired, a problem that plagued some units, and being one of the first customers to order one in the Netherlands and supply limited no immediate replacement was possible so I was refunded. But that didn't stop me of becoming completely convinced of how well the working principle of this grinding concept with an rotating outer conical burr works: using centrifugal force instead of gravity as with other conical grinders and thus greatly speeding up grinding and creating a very fluffy grind almost without any clumping. And off-course the very low retention that characterizes this design.

Link to the website: http://etzinger-ag.com/en/

Spec sheet: http://etzinger-ag.com/XooWebKit/bin/do ... etzMAX.pdf

Youtube videos: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... fcs56PDDU2

So, let this be a starting post for first experiences with this grinder once it comes into the hands of users! :D

Gaius
Posts: 182
Joined: 9 years ago

#2: Post by Gaius »

I like the idea and design and i think it much better looking thatn baratza 270w, but it lost me completely at 32mm burrs size.

bas
Posts: 374
Joined: 15 years ago

#3: Post by bas »

32 mm?

I presume they use the Sette burr set. Isn't possible they measured the inside?

To be honest the 48 mm burrs in my M47 (and Bezzera BB005) are not really bigger than the 38 mm burrs in many other small conicals. Depend on how and where you measure.

Or am I wrong?

Simon345
Posts: 403
Joined: 9 years ago

#4: Post by Simon345 »

Curious if this is the Sette pro that was rumoured a while back or whether there will also be one produced under the Baratza brand. Clearly it does take a lot from the Sette.

Stanic
Posts: 365
Joined: 7 years ago

#5: Post by Stanic »

Looks interesting, now let's wait for the beta testing a.k.a. early adopters' experiences 8)

Simon345
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Joined: 9 years ago

#6: Post by Simon345 »

Some other thoughts on this are:

1. The website seems to brand this the 'Medium'. Does that mean the 'Sette' is the 'Small' and there is a 'large' yet to be announced?

2. The motor wattage specified on the website is actually lower than the standard Sette!

3. Will be interested if there is a % figure published in the interest of transparency as to how much of the grinder components are shared with the Sette.

RikC (original poster)
Posts: 263
Joined: 7 years ago

#7: Post by RikC (original poster) »

Well I happen to have a coarse Sette burr still lying around that I had shipped internationaly directly from Baratza and that arrived just after I sent my Sette away for repair. When I measure it I get to little over 31mm... I wouldn't be suprised if this is the exact same burr.



(If you look carefully you can see the markings.)

So I think Baratza lists the diameter of the outer burr (40mm) on their site.

Also, I think there may be an error in the spec sheet of the etzMax because it lists 120V@240W@2,4amp and 230V@185@1.2amp.

Elsewhere on the site of the etzMAX they list using a Johnson DC motor. The Sette also has a DC motor and... here the site lists: 120V@290W@2.4Amp and 230V@280@1.2Amp: https://www.baratza.com/grinder/sette-270w/

Which are the (rounded off) numbers one would suspect if you do a simple Power = Voltage x Current (being DC there is no phase shift). Probably the same motor or at least with similar specs.

@Stannic, hehe yes I'm ready to be a guinea pig myself once more :mrgreen:

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AssafL
Posts: 2588
Joined: 14 years ago

#8: Post by AssafL »

I am totally not on the "bigger burrs are better" bandwagon.

Just from a simple engineering and cost perspective, keeping smaller burrs parallel and perfectly concentric (aligned) and with minimal outrun should be substantially easier (let alone less costly). As an example, keeping 40mm burrs stable and aligned puts much less strain on the bearings - and thus allowing the use of less expensive one.

This is before getting into the dynamics of fluffy grounds i.e. grounds normalization. To get fluff one needs a bit of speed (or a few paddles/wipers "normalizers"). Conversely, so does static. Hence an optimum is probably somewhere to be found (per ambient humidity, obviously).

Clearly, speed will suffer most for smaller burrs. But for a home user is that important?

Elsewhere we talk about normalizing grinders (the kind that can get Nespresso and Iperespresso to extract perfectly consistent - all WITHOUT REQUIRING that the user open the foil capsules and WDT - how cool is that???) - normalizing grinders in the 500$ range. Smaller burr done properly may be just what makes this possible.

Just a note regarding DC motor - ignore the wattage ratings. Stall torque is what is important and you need the motor specs for that (or you can stall the motor in a vise which is what I did to verify the specs). The average Wattage is irrelevant here - except to deduce the duty cycle for grinder operation in a busy café... (this is unlike an induction motor that will stall if slip increases beyond a certain value). I did a full analysis for the VL Bodine motor elsewhere which analyzes the published specs and shows why the motor at ones is "underpowered" if one is to read Watts and "overpowered" if one is to read stall torque (the proper way, assuming a maximum of 50% duty cycle).
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

RikC (original poster)
Posts: 263
Joined: 7 years ago

#9: Post by RikC (original poster) »

Speaking of similarities btw:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stnscpdF7y4

This metal open/closing hatch is exactly the same as the one used on the Sette...


Simon345
Posts: 403
Joined: 9 years ago

#10: Post by Simon345 »

If this turns out to be only a Sette packaged in a metal facade it has lost my interest already.

As more news about this one comes out I am hoping to hear a convincing list of the many ways that it is hardened and more durable/commercial in construction than a sette.

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