This is probably old news to some, but oh well.

We've had a rocky, an SJ, and now a Major. All new burrs. We've always used the same grinder for all brew methods and just adjusted. This summer we've used an old Cory vac pot with glass filter most days (so Elektra doesn't fight the A/C). The bimodal distribution of grinds is obvious, and the larger pieces are more like shards when the grind is set to get a decent flow rate. There was what I thought was a normal amount of fines which ended up in the pot.

I found an OLD hobart grocery store grinder for $80 and gave it a complete restoration. The burrs were not all that sharp, but they seem impossible to find replacements, so I left them alone and figured if nothing else, it would be awesome to look at. The restoration turned out really well (red, black and aluminum) and I investigated the grinding ability. It produces incredibly even grinds (looks a lot like the pre-ground stuff in the cans) and there is about 90% less fines that make it past the filter. The coffee is clearly better tasting. Only put about 2 pounds through it so far, but I think it will be in use for a long time. It works just as well for press; expecting same improvement for drip and maybe aeropress.

Anyway, I think the improvement going from Major to Hobart for vac and press is greater than the improvement going from Rocky to Major for espresso. Too bad this thing is so huge (Elekra actually looks small).

Grinders are, generally speaking, best at what they are designed to do.

How coarse were you grinding with your Major for Vac Pot? My Major does a nice v/c grind 4 numbers up from my espresso setting which works quite well in my Harios. Typical steep times are 45 seconds for the 3c & 75 seconds for the 5c.

To both Ben And John...

Could you post pictures of your grinds so we could look at the difference?

If you get the time.

-C

JohnB. wrote:How coarse were you grinding with your Major for Vac Pot? My Major does a nice v/c grind 4 numbers up from my espresso setting which works quite well in my Harios. Typical steep times are 45 seconds for the 3c & 75 seconds for the 5c.

I was grinding a little coarser than you; otherwise it would take forever to go down into the bottom pot. I can grind quite a bit finer with the hobart for the same suction time. I might try to pick up a different filter and try a grind closer to espresso.

Ben Z. wrote:I was grinding a little coarser than you; otherwise it would take forever to go down into the bottom pot. I can grind quite a bit finer with the hobart for the same suction time. I might try to pick up a different filter and try a grind closer to espresso.

My only vac pot experience is with my Hario tabletops using cloth filters so I can't say how my grind would work with a glass filter. I have found that with any of the espresso grinders I've owned(Macap M4, SJ, Major) that none of them were capable of producing a decent coarse or even moderately coarse grind. The grind pretty much falls apart once you reach a certain point on the adjuster ring. I get what I consider to be excellent v/p brews with no bitterness & good flavors using the Major as previously posted.

Ben Z. wrote:I was grinding a little coarser than you; otherwise it would take forever to go down into the bottom pot. I can grind quite a bit finer with the hobart for the same suction time. I might try to pick up a different filter and try a grind closer to espresso.

Glass rod vs. cloth filter is a subject for another thread, but I will say on that that I enjoy cloth filter a lot more, despite truly wanting to like the glass rod. My experience was with the Baratza Vario, which is a solid espresso grinder, though it's billed for all grind methods, so of course YMMV. My experience is that it's heavy on fines like an espresso grinder, so I'm hoping that this will be true for you as well.

I found with the glass rod that finding a 'sweet spot' for short draw-downs was a challenge, and I think part of that is because, with a fines-heavy grinder, in some ranges a coarser grind can slow your drawdown rather than speed it up--the coarser grind seems to facilitate a fines migration that stifles the narrow filter path of the glass rod. With the Vario I just gave up and switched to cloth; I got too sick of 3:00 drawdowns when I was trying to nail the grind. Cloth gives a cleaner taste (some would probably say emasculated ) and more tolerant of grind variation, so you can dial in the grind and steep time with a lot less fuss. Again, YMMV, but I thought it a 'paradox' worth mentioning.

In my limited survey of the literature, there are four kinds of coffee grinders that I have heard of.

First, there are industrial grinders. These are based, I understand, on rollers, and are the kind used to fill your local can of Folgers. They are said to produce a relatively narrow, unimodal bell curve of particle sizes, but since the coffee so produced is not of great interest to coffee geeks, not much is said about brewing methods and cup results. I have no idea what kind of grinder Illy and the others like them use to fill packs of espresso ground coffee, but I presume it is a roller set to finer tolerances than Proctor and Gamble does.

The second category is what is sometimes called the home or commercial espresso grinder. These produce a bi-modal particle size spread, with the smaller spike in the "fines" range, which is thought to be important for espresso. The Mazzer Rober is often considered the exemplar. Entry level is debated. There are those who make the case for various $150 and $200 grinders being fine for espresso, and those who advise Rocky owners that they are in desparate need of an upgrade if they want to make real espresso. I regard work like the "Titan Grinder Project" as the chief source of enlightenment in this category.

The third class might be called cheapo grinders. Here lie the whirly blades and fake-burr bean bashers. This category also includes grinders that may have decent quality burrs, but are poorly engineered so the burrs are unstable in use. Their problem is that they produce too wide a distribution of particles. If you grind longer or repeatedly to eliminate big chunks, you get too many fines, and a skewed extraction no matter what the brewing method.

The forth category is a mysterious one. This is the home or at least sub-industrial grinder that produces a narrowish uni-modal grind like the stuff in the Folgers can. Among other assertions, these are said to be optimized for drip. I have yet to hear word one about what design features distinguish these from any of the above designs. Do these actually exist? How so I wonder.

What do we actually know about what grinders are allegedly designed to do?

earlgrey_44 wrote:In my limited survey of the literature, there are four kinds of coffee grinders that I have heard of.

Here is my grinder and a shot of one of the burrs:





Just for kicks, here is a shot of the rollers for my grain mill (homebrewing):



I wonder how it would work for drip, etc (the gap is adjustable - currently set to 27 mils).

Ben Z. wrote: I wonder how it would work for drip, etc (the gap is adjustable - currently set to 27 mils).

I bet it would be great, plus you get a nice ale with a hint of coffee flavor.

-Cecil