I have been reading with interest the 23 page Elektra Nino Grinder thread where there is an abundance of data about teething problems, and its superior lack of grind retention, but what about taste? does it produce consistent excellent shots as the Robur is reported to do and does it have "a sweet spot as wide as an interstate" (Dan Kehn in "Anyone around Boston with a Baratza Vario?") I know many of you Nino owners own or have owned both...thank you for taking the time to read this.

I don't own a Nino, but I would expect results similar to other large conical grinders. One of the posters in the Nino thread owned both a Robur E and Nino and reported no difference in taste, but kept the Nino because of its superior grind retention.

The Nino uses the same 68mm burr set I tested in the Compak-K10, Macap MXCR and Fiorenzato Doge. In addition, it is used on the Rossi, Cimbali, and Eureka conical grinders.

Each of these has different power motors and gearing, as does the Nino. So the detailed performance varies, and I can't speak for the Nino's precise grind quality. But overall, I found that this is an ultra consistent burr set, and I would be totally surprised if the Nino wasn't a rock solid grinder.

If you want to know what I mean by rock solid, talk to anyone who has participated in any of the shot testing I've done since getting the K10. No matter how many coffees or doses, they are completely without drama.

I'm not sure if you've seen this already, but it may be of some interest.

High volume the Robur-E wins, in that it more consistently results in a perfect pour. Home use, the Nino wins hands down, unless you are willing to sacrifice a lot of stale coffee each day. I can't tell a difference in taste when the shots are on, but the Robur-E makes it happen with a little less effort (read as no effort). In saying that, I'm not implying the Nino is difficult and its currently the only grinder on my bench. I believe its more to do with the distribution rather than the quality of grind. The Nino grinds are very light and fluffy, but they do tend to get thrown to the back of the PF resulting in a slight front to back pour unless you move the PF a bit while dosing or other post dose methods. The Robur-E grounds are already semi-compacted and tend to just drop straight down into the centre of the PF and are generally good to go.

The above is really just nitpicking, the main difference between them is the grounds retention issue, or lack thereof in the Nino. First thing in the morning a 30g purge on the Robur-E, around 5g on the Nino (minimum setting is 1.0 seconds).

Hope that helps,
Chris

gyro wrote:(minimum setting is 1.0 seconds).

Minimum settings on the Nino is 0.1 seconds.

jbell wrote:Minimum settings on the Nino is 0.1 seconds.

I think you misunderstood. The adjustment resolution is 0.1 s as you say, but Chris is talking about the minimum grind time, which is indeed 1.0 s.

Anyway, I pretty much concur with Chris on my opinion of the Nino vs. the Robur, having owned a Robur and used a friend's Robur E many times, including pulling shots side by side with my Nino on each of those grinders. Cup results-wise, I think you'd have to be an extremely good taster to note a consistent variation. I'd question anyone who claimed to find one without doing thorough blind testing as a person who values their own imagination far too much. Jim mentioned that the Nino has the same burrs as the other 68 mm's he tested, and in addition to that, the 110V single-phase Robur's "71 mm" burrs are a total gimmick of measurement. The ODs of the inner cutting blade of all the 68 mm conicals and the "71 mm" Robur are 49 mm; the variation in the OD of the outer burr is somewhat meaningless unless you're talking about mounting a specific burr set. These are all the same basic grinder, with 2 major variations: First, motor speed. Second, price.

Of course I am being rather sarcastic on the price thing, but the motor speed variation is a pretty significant issue. For what it's worth, I believe the Nino's motor spins at 600 rpm on 60 Hz AC in the US, and I frankly think this is much too fast. It's somewhat faster than the Robur when its bean column is weighted similarly, and roughly twice as fast as a K10. Why is this important? 2 reasons. First, it makes the 0.1s resolution on the timer a little too coarse (IMO), and second, it makes the dose weight for a fixed grinding time very dependent on the bean column weight--i.e., irritatingly finicky if you load up 200g in the hopper and start pulling shots. Fine on the first few, and then both your grind and your dose weight start to shift as a result of popcorning. You have to add more coffee or deal with somewhat variable results. I finally gave in and got a borosilicate glass tube hopper for mine (like Magnus' here) and weighed the bean column with a 200g weight. Once you fix that irritating sensitivity to bean column weight, either by keeping the hopper pretty high with beans or cooking up a homebrew weighted hopper, the thing performs with the consistency you'd expect from a big conical, just as consistent as the Roburs I've used.

That's pretty much my take on the Nino after about year of use: it's the most awesome home grinder out there, really enjoyable to use and puts out a great cup with ease, with 2 Achilles heels in that it's 240V and its motor is about twice as fast as it ought to be to perform consistently with few beans in the hopper.

Pick your poison. If you single dose, I wouldn't touch the Nino with a ten foot pole; it's incredibly awful at it, likely because of how fast its motor turns. If you want the most consistent grinder, I think the Robur does indeed hold that record still, if by a very small margin. I say that having used a K10 once in my life, and on a machine I was super-unfamiliar with (an old Linea with no group gicleurs at all). If you pick a K10 or a Robur, you need to either get used to single dosing or plan on doing very large purges at the beginning of a session and every time you make a grind adjustment, with the extreme case of the Robur E being the worst—a nice 30-45 gram purge before you experience the full effect of a grind change.

There are no categorical winners among these grinders, just different sets of usability tradeoffs. If you use them right, they're all amazing performers, and if you treat them to great coffee and a decent espresso machine, you'll get exactly what they promise: drama-free espresso shots, time and again.

shadowfax wrote:If you pick a K10 or a Robur, you need to either get used to single dosing or plan on doing very large purges at the beginning of a session and every time you make a grind adjustment, with the extreme case of the Robur E being the worst—a nice 30-45 gram purge before you experience the full effect of a grind change.

I haven't found that to be true after several months of using the K10WBC daily. I've checked the amount of grounds left in the burr chamber while grinding with beans in the hopper on several occasions. Worst case was 10 grams when I was grinding an oily decaf blend. The chute holds 2.5-3 grams. I sweep out the chute & one burr chamber sweeper segment with each dose so I'm looking at 6-7grams that need to be purged after an idle period.

BTDT. I was using that huge number to some extent for dramatic effect, and it's 100% accurate for the Mazzer E grinders, because you can't sweep the chute. The K10's chamber is somewhat smaller than the Robur's, I believe, though not much. If you are good about sweeping the excess grinds in the chute into your basket every time you use it, 6-7 grams' purge sounds about right. And that's pretty decent, maybe about twice as bad as a Super Jolly or something that small if used in the same fashion. Plus you beat out the SJ on typically making fewer grind tweaks, but in contrast to the Nino, you're also doing the sweep-dance after every shot. If you didn't, the chute would back up and the whole thing holds dramatically more coffee in that case. If you don't think so, try the 'rice test' mentioned in the above thread: those grinders' paths are so wide that they typically don't act like FIFOs when they are used without interfering (with a brush).

I'm just saying, again, that all of these grinders are extremely similar and you pick one or the other based on the semi-superficial compromises you're willing to make in terms of price, aesthetics, usability, dosing routine, waste, and at least for the Nino, electrical requirements.

I use the Compak K10 WBC and the Mazzer Robur as my everyday grinders. I haven't measured, but agree with John that the Robur requires more purging than the K10, even if you sweep the chutes. The Robur also requires more coffee in the hopper to avoid popcorning compared to the K10; I attribute this difference to the very narrow throat of the K10 and its motor's lower RPM.