While I still believe conicals rule, but not everyone can afford them.

We just received four samples of mills made from a new alloy for test. Those that have visited us know that the testing here is limited to as much coffee as Angelo and I can drink--which is only so much--so we need some outside assistance here.

This project may fit.

These mills are supposed to last much longer, they have a remarkably different finish--appearing more like stainless steel due to the titanium content--and are much sharper than the original Mazzer mills. A lot sharper, actually. These are not the gold titanium treated mills we have seen before, but an entirely different alloy.

We can spare ONE SET for the Mazzer Super Jolly. It would ship with a box of the proprietary grinder cleaning crystals developed by Asachimici. We would need to have the mills back after the test to see how they weathered the usage and we need to find a high volume location to evaluate their performance over time.

Anyone interested?

Michael Teahan
Espresso Resource
818-786-7179



Split from Titan Grinder Project by moderator...

mteahan wrote:We can spare ONE SET for the Mazzer Super Jolly.

We have a Super Jolly among the TGP grinders. Currently it's with me, the next stop is Jim Schulman's. If you are interested in loaning them to the TGP, please contact me. I would be able to arrange a side-by-side comparison by borrowing another Super Jolly. It might also be interesting to compare the grind difference, if any, in the next round of particle size analysis.

Dan,

The Duranium Mills are on their way (I think that is a metal used on the Star Ship Enterprise); you will have them in your hands next week.

Thanks Michael, I will try to scare up a set of worn Super Jolly burrs for comparison. Lino may have some burrs leftover from the truckload of TagEx grinders we bought off eBay a couple years back.

While new against old is important, I would like to know if this new material and cutting surface offers any advantage over the stock metal.

Since most of the grinders have mills that needed to be replaced three years ago, anything kind of old should suffice.

We have one customer (not in the U.S.) that buys over 1,000 mill sets a year for their customers, and that's just one brand. The U.S. is not very kind to their grinders.

mteahan wrote:While I still believe conicals rule, but not everyone can afford them.

We just received four samples of mills made from a new alloy for test. Those that have visited us know that the testing here is limited to as much coffee as Angelo and I can drink--which is only so much--so we need some outside assistance here.

This project may fit.

These mills are supposed to last much longer, they have a remarkably different finish--appearing more like stainless steel due to the titanium content--and are much sharper than the original Mazzer mills. A lot sharper, actually. These are not the gold titanium treated mills we have seen before, but an entirely different alloy.

Below is a photo of one of the new Duranium burrs you sent:



And the stock burr:



Tomorrow I will install them on the Super Jolly I've been evaluating as part of the TGP to break them in for a few days, then try some side-by-side tests with Lino's Super Jolly (estimated burr wear of 30-50 pounds). If you look very very carefully, there is a small difference in the cutting pattern. Specifically, the coarse grinding edges do not extend as deeply for the new burrs.

It may just be the photograph angles, but the burrs seem subtly different in shape. The new ones appear more radial (less slanted away fron the radius of the circle)

To avoid distortion, the two photos above are actually from the same frame. I split them to show them larger in the post. You could go blind trying to see the difference, but I believe you're right about the straighter angle of the first cutting edges. The number of "wedges" and pattern are unchanged.

Regarding the angle and pitch of the Mazzer mill sets; the OEM is less aggressive on the initial grind (inner most teeth) and slightly more so on the final cut. It would be interesting to see if there is a difference and if any of that can be attributed to the cutting angle.

Dan,

Don't forget to give the other samples a try and tell us what you think. Coffee Colors printed a review of the Puly Grind, but in true form, the translation bites.

And yet. . . .

The manufacturer of the Duranium mills in Italy appreciated the report from Dan that the tolerance of the retention ring of the mill was 0.05mm too tight and needed a little persuasion to seat. It was close enough that not everyone might experience it, but an easy fix nonetheless.

They are also anxious to discover the results of the particle analysis to see how the pattern compares. They simply tasted it, I think.

While the Home Barista does operate in an environment alien to most commercial users, the enthusiasm and quest for understanding is not matched outside Italian factories. And then not even in some of them.

What you guys do has more value than you think.

And I am glad to discover most have outgrown the flatline brew temp fad.

mteahan wrote:It would be interesting to see if there is a difference and if any of that can be attributed to the cutting angle.

Sorry for delay, the last week has been hectic and this weekend did not afford much time for testing.

As you know, I had some difficultly properly seating the bottom burr because the centering ring was a teenie bit too large for the Duranium burrs. After several attempts and some "persuasion," the burrs were installed and in short order, the pours looked reasonable. It may be my imagination, but in addition to being really really fast, the taste profile seems different. A lot more chocolates, almost to the point of tasting like a tight ristretto despite my usual brew ratio.

I have focused on the Mazzer Kony / Super Jolly + Duranium burrs since my time with the Titan's is rapidly coming to a close. After dialing in both grinders this morning, I only had time for two side-by-side blind taste tests using Counter Culture's Aficionado blend. The blend seems lower in acidity, less fruity, and bigger in chocolates than I recall; I'll have to ask Peter if its flavor profile has shifted or my memory is failing (or both!). To the results:

Round 1:

Mazzer Super Jolly:
Crema appearance: 4.0
Crema persistence: 4.0
Tactile balance: 3.5
Taste balance: 4.0
Overall: 4.0 (yum!)

Mazzer Kony:
Crema appearance: 3.0
Crema persistence: 3.0
Tactile balance: 3.5
Taste balance: 3.5
Overall: 3.5

Round 2:

Mazzer Super Jolly:
Crema appearance: 4.0
Crema persistence: 4.0
Tactile balance: 3.5
Taste balance: 3.0
Overall: 3.5

Mazzer Kony:
Crema appearance: 3.0
Crema persistence: 3.0
Tactile balance: 3.0
Taste balance: 3.0
Overall: 3.0

The Super Jolly with Duranium burrs took both rounds by a hair. I cannot say whether the new burrs affected the scores. Although I borrowed Lino's Super Jolly, I've not done any blind side-by-side taste tests using it. My impressions above are from dialing in the two Super Jolly's. My preliminary thoughts on the early extractions with the Duraniums: If you're a latte lover who craves bass notes and chocolates, it may be worth checking into these space age burrs next time you change them. That said, it wasn't a blind taste test and thus my comments should be given appropriate weight (read: near zero ). I will try to squeeze in a couple more Jolly taste tests before shipping the Titans to the HB Grinder Depot, also known as Jim Schulman's apartment.

I look forward to hearing Nick's thoughts on them.

This has been a fun read. Glad to see my grinder of choice The SJ more than hold its own.
I'm lazy, so, without having to sift through the 11 pages, could someone tell me if the Duranium burrs are available to the gen public as yet?...if so, from who?...or is that whom?
Thanks.

From a few pages back...

mteahan wrote:While I still believe conicals rule, but not everyone can afford them.

We just received four samples of mills made from a new alloy for test. Those that have visited us know that the testing here is limited to as much coffee as Angelo and I can drink--which is only so much--so we need some outside assistance here.

This project may fit.

These mills are supposed to last much longer, they have a remarkably different finish--appearing more like stainless steel due to the titanium content--and are much sharper than the original Mazzer mills. A lot sharper, actually. These are not the gold titanium treated mills we have seen before, but an entirely different alloy.

We can spare ONE SET for the Mazzer Super Jolly. It would ship with a box of the proprietary grinder cleaning crystals developed by Asachimici. We would need to have the mills back after the test to see how they weathered the usage and we need to find a high volume location to evaluate their performance over time.

Anyone interested?

Michael Teahan
Espresso Resource
818-786-7179

Hey...thanks much...he's in my old San Fernando valley stomping grounds

Where are the Mazzer "Duranium" burrs for Super Jolly available?

or are they just for testing ?

Alf, please see this post.

IMAWriter wrote:Hey...thanks much...he's in my old San Fernando valley stomping grounds

Just chatted with Angelo....he is a wonderful gentleman (I know you're reading this, Angelo...haha)
If I am able to purchase a set of these burrs, I will be happy to add my 2 cents and report my experiences. I love my SJ as is, but it's always great to experiment with new things. I give my SJ quite a workout for a non commercial guy...about 3 lbs a week.
I'd love to know why the burrs builders decided to choose the SJ as a recipient of these burrs...?
Are they also available for some of the other Mazzer/Rio grinders?....I apologize if I missed that discussion.

IMAWriter wrote:Are they also available for some of the other Mazzer/Rio grinders?....I apologize if I missed that discussion.

I have a coupla Majors, side by each, in my kitchen, so I'd be up for a one-to-one comparison if they want to test a set of Major burrs. I'm about to about my order in for a new set of burrs anyways, so it'd be new vs new, and I could (I guess) be convinced to send in both sets after an agreed on amount of time (or coffees) if that would be useful.

We want to thank everyone for their interest in these mills and also give an update as to when they will be available.

In true Italian style, Italy went on holiday over the weekend; which means thats when they STARTED their holiday. They are out for the whole month. Because these were brand new, we couldn't anticipate bringing them in until they were tested. We will contact our manufacturer via mobile once they have a few days under the sun, but nothing will ship before mid September.

We expect all of the mills currently in production to have the Duranium variant and be readily available in the fourth quarter of the year.

We will place the few remaining sets out for test to give them a real run in and will encourage those users to post their findings.

Thanks again to Dan and everyone at Home-Barista.com for their evaluations and we will forward their comments on to our engineers in Italy.

The Super Jolly with stock and Duranium burrs are on their way to Jim's place. Sorry Michael, because of conflicting summer vacations, I was not able to arrange a group test. The Titans have lingered too long at this stop and must be moving on...

In addition to my impressions posted above, I did notice something odd about the Duraniums - the grinder "stalled" several times on startup after sitting with the grinding chamber full for a few hours. That is, I would run a session in the early morning and then a second session the early afternoon. Turned the On switch to clear the chute and chamber of old grinds and nothing. Backing off the grind two notches then returning it while the burrs spun corrected the stalls for the current session, though it would return later. The grind setting was fine enough for a 15 gram ristretto, but still, I've never seen that happen before. Perhaps the Duranium's more aggressive cutting angle is putting more strain on the motor startup?