I did follow through and upgrade my Rocky Doserless to the Mazzer Mini. I am now on the verge of moving from the Mini to the MiniE...

Br,
Teme



...split from Buying / upgrading espresso machine or grinder this year? by moderator...

Teme wrote:I am now on the verge of moving from the Mini to the MiniE...

I also had a Rocky DL and upgraded to the Mini. At first I found the doser irritating, but I've come to terms with it. With the modifications for improving the sweep efficiency, I even prefer the ritual of thwacking the doser handle as a means of more carefully controlling the initial distribution.

I finally dumped my old Solis Maestro and got a Macap M4 doserless grinder. Why I haven't upgraded my grinder before this is beyond me...

I'm about to purchase the Macap M4, but I don't know whether to go with or without the doser. I thought that a doser would reduce the amount of grounds on the counter. Any suggestions on with or without the doser?

I went from the Rocky w/doser to the Super Jolly with doserless conversion. I couldn't be happier without a doser. Fluffy, clump free grinds? Lookout, Versalab...

I originally had a Mazzer Mini-E, but recently swapped it for a Cimbali Jr. I couldn't be happier! The Cimbali delivers what - to me - is a better, fluffier grind. I had been having distribution problems with the mini-e, and was having to go to such lengths to eliminate them that the convenience doserless-ness of the mini-e was being effectively negated. The first shot I pulled after putting the Cimbali on my counter had a wonderful, even distribution, WITHOUT going to any crazy lengths. Just dose, stockfleths, tamp, pull.

Give me a doser.

In fact I did take the step and went ahead with the Mini E.

The Rocky was a good grinder but difficult to clean, it had stepped adjustment, there was some clumping of the grinds and it made a mess. There were also other things like the need to press the grind activation button for the entire duration of the grind as well as some issues regarding beans not flowing smoothly from the hopper into the chamber. Some of these could have been overcome with modifications, but I decided to go for the Mini instead.

I wasn't entirely happy with the Mini either. I had done a few modifications on the Mini's doser and I still found it less than ideal for per shot use. Despite the modifications there was also the need to clean the doser, which wasn't too time consuming but another step to the routines nonetheless. I also found that it made a huge mess on the countertop and wasted coffee due to not being unable to grind just the right amount. The former could have been mitigated by more care and patience in pulling the lever and the latter could have been overcome with weighing the beans per shot before throwing them into the hopper. I was not too keen on either approach, which is why I decided to go for the Mini E despite it being too expensive imo.

Now the Mini E is not perfect either, but of these three I would still opt for it. It has most of the benefits of both of the above grinders with only a limited number of the negatives. On top of this, it really does not create a lot of mess - this I really like. But - and there always is a but - I agree that the Mini E does have issues with regards to the initial distribution of the grinds. This means that the PF rest is more or less useless because to counter the uneven particle distribution, one has to move the portafilter around (as Dan suggested) and when doing this the PF rest just gets in the way. More importantly, one does not get the hands free operation that the Mini E supposedly offers. But I have no problems with the distribution with this routine. Even though I do not trust the timers on the Mini E, I find that my dose consistency has improved with it (and I waste less coffee, too).

Prior to purchasing the Mini E, I also seriously considered the Versalab M3. For me it would have been double the price of the Mini E as well as being slower and messier. Then there was the fact that one has to measure the beans per shot and pour them in while the grinder is running - I understood that if one chucks the beans in and then starts the grinder, if may jam. The pulley and the belt needs to be cleaned weekly to avoid slippage, too. This sounded like a lot of hassle, especially when I have a few people over so I decided against it despite its great looks and apparently perfect grind distribution.

To sum up, I am happy with the Mini E and I am quite sure this is the grinder I will stick with for a long time unless something truly revolutionary comes along (which I hope does happen).

Br,
Teme

Also see Pros and cons of doser vs. doserless grinder?

stevendouglas wrote:I'm about to purchase the Macap M4, but I don't know whether to go with or without the doser. I thought that a doser would reduce the amount of grounds on the counter. Any suggestions on with or without the doser?

I'm in the same situation. I emailed Jim at 1st-Line.com and based on my usage (10-12 shots per day) and what I was looking for (clean and ease of use) he recommended going with the doser. Unfortunately when you're buying for the first time it seems like you just need to pick one and go with it. There seems to be good arguments for both sides, besides based on what I've read here most people on the site upgrade or change equipment or just have multiple items. I'm begining to think this is going to be an expensive hobby.......

This? An "expensive hobby"? MAIS NON!!!

After all, that which we bought 2 or 3 months ago (for, say, $1500) we can always sell on Ebay today (for, say, $450). LOL!

Really, I don't think that most of us keep upgrading since there seems to be a sort path from "noobie mediocrity" to "barista bliss". (Mine is a different story of decades spent with so-so equipment, but that is for another post).

To answer the main question: I say doser-less. I USED to think there was NO difference between beans ground seconds ago and those ground hours ago...now, I appreciate those "lost" minutes and their effect on my cup. Besides, there is something most annoying about you doser guys pulling that dosing lever frantically while grinding!

I have been consdering the MiniE (like Teme's)...but the Macap doser-less offered by 1st Line might be a really nice grinder at a whole lot less $, albeit without the cyclone thingy.

Len

I've been researching the Macap doserless for a while now, and can't seem to get answers to a few questions. Specifically, how much coffee stays in the exit chute and dispensing tube when finished grinding for espresso? If there's a good amount, how tough is it to get out? Got any tips to pass along on the general use of this machine?

I know it's billed as a bulk grinder and really isn't intended as a per-shot grinder (hence the lack of a PF holder), but this one looks like it could be ideal for my situation. As it is now, my Cunill is in the garage due to its... fine looks. I think I may be able to get my wife to give me a little more counterspace for the Macap. It seems to have a smaller footprint if the catch tray is removed (can it be?), and it would sit nicely next to my Andreja Premium.

Thanks for your help!

RAS,

You raise some good points...someof which I never noticed such as the lack of PF fork.

My "guess" is that not too much stays in the chute because it is:
1. short
2. well angled
3. smooth.

But, I have no experience with the Macap and have never seen one in the flesh.

Len

Len,

Good observations, but I sure would like to see one of these to confirm. My biggest reservation (I'm that close to ordering one) is that 1st-Line considers this a commercial grinder, and offers no buyer's remorse return option. Sure don't want to get stuck with a $400 grinder that doesn't perform well in a measure-&-grind-per-shot mode.

Many bulk coffee grinders do not offer a fine enough granularity of adjustment for use with espresso (as a caution).

I think this one should be OK... Or at least as "OK" as a stepped grinder can be. It's just a Macap M4 without the doser.

Ras,

I believe that you are correct and that it is merely an M4 without doser. However, as you said, it sure would be nice if someone would confirm its suitability for espresso.

Len

A properly designed doserless grinder can be great provided the grinder is fast and the number of shots pulled back to back are going to be relatively few. Otherwise, the inconvenience of standing in front of the grinder for each shot outweighs the gain of slightly fresher coffee for most, including myself. If I HAD to go doserless, the doserless-modified Super Jolly's combination of adjustability and grinding output would be about the minimum I'd be able to live with.

Honestly, if freshness is THAT important, roasting your own (with some practice) will provide a far more sustantial improvement of what's in your cup than any difference between grinding-then-dosing vs. grinding directly into the portafilter. And the increased understanding of varietal coffee characteristics, handing and blending gained from roasting your own will assure you'll always get the best in your cup, regardless of how the coffee exits your grinder.

Woofy wrote:Honestly, if freshness is THAT important, roasting your own (with some practice) will provide a far more sustantial improvement of what's in your cup than any difference between grinding-then-dosing vs. grinding directly into the portafilter. And the increased understanding of varietal coffee characteristics, handing and blending gained from roasting your own will assure you'll always get the best in your cup, regardless of how the coffee exits your grinder.

Woof,

I think we can safely 'assume' that we are all taking the proper action(s) toward coffee roast freshness. The subject here regards doser vs. doser-less.

You do make some good points about "the increased understanding of varietal coffee characteristics, handing and blending" which I, as a non-roaster, find intriguing. I buy my beans straight from the local roaster within 1 day of their being roasted - but can see that many of you home roasters have a much greater understanding of the different beans vs. roast profile vs. blends that I just can't grasp.

Len

I have had a Rocky Doser and a Doserless, and a Mazzer Mini as well. Comparing the Rocky doser to the Rocky doserless, there is much less mess with the doser model and you can use a chopstick to clean out the chute, whereas on the doserless model, it's much more challenging. There is definitely clumping on the doserless while no clumping on doser. I tried that klickklack lid on the doserless, but that just made grinds fly all over the place. (no I didn't try that ridiculous looking yogurt cup mod on the portafilter). Also when doing the whole grind, distribute, tamp routine, after distributing grounds in pf, you can swipe them into the doser instead of the trash can or bowl with the doserless. Finally, with doser you don't have to stand there and wait while it's grinding, holding the button down. If you do get the doserless rocky, take out the switch, and remove the spring so you don't have to hold it down (don't do all the rewiring that you see online). The doser model doesn't do a great job at sweeping all the grounds clean from the doser, but there are mods for that.
I guarantee if you had the Rocky doser and doserless side by side for a month, you'd choose the doser. I wanted so much to like the doserless model due to its looks, but I couldn't do it.

The Mazzer Mini does a far superior job of sweeping the grinds from the doser compared to the Rocky doser.