So, Ive had my brand new Compak K10 for about 2 1/2 weeks now.

From day 1, it worked nicely. I noticed over the first few days, I was needing to grind progressively finer, to keep the same shot flow, and I read that others had that same experience. But even with that, the shots were tasty, so I elected not to run through 5lbs of coffee to season the burrs.. they seemed to work out.

Few days in, the grind setting settled in, and Im pulling wonderful shots. I mean really great. First, its incredibly easy to dial in. Im still not 100% used to how much I need to move the adjustment collar, for the change I want, so it takes me a shot or two to get perfect, but once its right, pulling excellent shots is pure bliss. With WDT, or Without, the shots are rich, thick, heavy bodied, with a fluffy creamy crema, which itself looks heavy and "lumpy". Like it has substance to it.


And then all of a sudden, after about a week, and up until last night, I have noticed a steep drop off, to the point now, where I cant pull anything even remotely drinkable. I mean it went from textbook, to literal s**t, in about a week. Here are the symptoms now:
-VERY finicky about dialing in. One series of shots requires large adjustments to correct, the next series needs MINUTE adjustment. Im literally chasing a non existent grind setting, is what it feels like.
-Whether I use the WDT, or simply dose into the basket and stockfleth, ALL the shots pour the same. IF they're too fast, then they're pure gushers, blond as hell from the start. If they're too tight, or even remotely close to decent flow, they start out SUPER DARK, and before a single stream even forms, they've blonded completely, and the stream dances and pulls back and forth.. There are no smooth tiger stripes, ever.
-This is the EXACT same thing, regardless of dose or basket. Last night, I confirmed this, by using doses from 14gram, to 23 grams, in a variety of baskets. Faema 14gram, VST 18gram, EPNW HQ Ridgeless Triple, La Marzocco Triple(old school, not strada). Two types of precision baskets and two types of old school baskets, all using fresh coffee(in last nights case, Sermon, from Verve, but also some homeroast, PTs I had frozen, and some Barrington Gold)

-How do the shots taste you ask? How do they look in the cup? In a word, sh*t. But, really, the shots taste TERRIBLE. Massively astringent, thin, hot, no mouthfeel, and a terrible aftertaste. They're not even remotely consumable. How do they look? The crema is light colored, and no mottling or tiger flecking(not even CLOSE), just a light tan. Its also thin, has no substance to it, and honestly looks kinda like what you get from a low pressure spring lever, like an Mcal(except Mcal shots taste good, MY shots taste so bad I cant even take more then a sip)



PLEASE. Help me. I JUST bought this grinder. Out of the box, it worked very well, and then, in pure normal use, it just dropped off a cliff, and now Im producing this horrible, underextracted, terrible tasting espresso, no matter what I do.

For completeness sake, Im using fresh coffee, Im doing good shot prep, and Ive even changed up my routine to every way of doing it. Single dosing, which is how I normally operate, as well as loading up 2pounds in the hopper(no change). Dosing into the portafilter and paying attention to distribution, tamping and pulling, OR, just thwacking all the grounds into the portafilter, do the WDT, tamp and pull. Lots of headspace, little headspace, big dose, little dose, precision basket, regular basket... I know how to make espresso, I know how to diagnose shot errors. What I dont understand, is how the hell a grinder goes from fine working condition, brand new, and then turns into this useless, underextracting nightmare.. in a week.

PLEASE, someone shed some light on this.

If you guys would like visual info, pictures or video, I can probably do that. Pictures no problem, I can try video.

Appreciate any insight you can lend my way, I am so unbelievably frustrated.

Sorry to hear you're having problems, Jeff.

FYI, on average, one mark on the grind setting collar of my K10 equates to about five seconds of flow time. It varies with the coffee and days since roast, but it's in that ballpark.

I never use WDT with my K10. I think few if any K10 owners do.

Just so we know, which K10 do you have? Regular, Pro or Fresh? Have you done any mods -- e.g., removing the dosing switch on the Standard model, removing the finger guard, modifying the chute, etc.? When single dosing, are you using something like an empty spice jar to keep the beans from popcorning? Are you sweeping out the chute with the old "bump and grind" routine?

Even though it would be good to know the answers to these questions, it doesn't sound like any of the above would be causing the problem you're seeing.

The main thing that comes to mind is that something has come loose in the grinder.

Are you using the screw that locks down the collar? If not, you should -- otherwise the setting can wander while grinding. If you are using the screw, can you move the collar when it's locked down? It shouldn't move.

Are you able to grind fine enough to "choke" the machine? What happens if you set the grind to choke the machine, then back off one half-mark at a time until it doesn't choke? Do you still get the dark pour that quickly turns into a gusher? What I'm wondering is if the zero setting has shifted.

Are you sure the hex screw that holds the moving burr in place is tight? Your symptoms would make sense if that screw had come loose sometime after you got the grinder.

It's conceivable that you have a bad motor bearing and that the shaft is wobbling. It's hard to tell because the hole for the hex screw on top is drilled off center and it looks like the movable burr wobbles when it really doesn't.

The other thing that comes to mind is damaged burrs. Are you certain that no rocks or other hard debris got into the grinder between the time it was working well and now? If you're able to eliminate misalignment or movement of the burrs, then you might want to disassemble the grinder and inspect the burrs for damage.

Before taking the grinder apart, however, I would call your dealer and discuss the problem with their service department. Since you're in Westchester, I would hope you bought your grinder from Chris Coffee in Albany. If so, they'll take care of you.

As I know Jeff mostly from CG, I can absolutely vouch for his knowledge and home barista skills.
Jeff man, The only way I can relate is by the process I worked with with my Vario.
After a few pounds, I did a complete cleaning, I mean COMPLETE.
Not know your terrific grinder, can most everything be removed and cleaned, other than the center burr?
If so, I'd try that first. Sometimes, trapped beans from new burrs can cause problems, plus some schmutz that gets caught in crucial areas.

Of course, there IS the possibility the there is a burr problem perhaps they were incorrectly installed.
Stuff happens. Have you looked at your outside burr to see if it's worn abnormally. Sure sounds like you've got a mis-alligned burr set.
I'm sure those WITH this grinder will be a whole lot more helpful than I.

Good luck.

If you haven't already done it I'd suggest removing the outer burr carrier, clean out the burr chamber/carrier & make sure that all the small allen bolts that lock the outer burr into the carrier are tight. I did this when I first got my K10 & found those bolts loose.

Thanks for the replies so far fellas.

Dick-

As to using the WDT, personally, Ive been a long time fan of it. Mazzer Major, Macap MXKR, Baratza Vario, Ive used it with all those grinders. Ive also pulled plenty shots with all those grinders without the WDT.

With my new K10, I planned on getting rid of it completely, not because it annoys me, just because if I dont need to use it, why do it? Hard to break the habit after four years though. Probably 50% of the time with the grinder, Ive used WDT.

The model I have is the Pro. Used to be the WBC.

Mod wise, I only removed the large square finger guard from the doser, and the roll pin that stops you from turning the burr carrier more then one rotation without taking off the collar. I haven't modded the doser yet(sweeps clean enough, but sweepers were planned), or modified the black plastic chute housing.

Single dosing has been 99% of the time. Last night I loaded up the hopper to see if it would help, but it didn't. I do place a little ramekin over the throat, but it doesn't sit on the beans, it just keeps whatever popcorning happens, in the throat/burrs. There IS popcorning, obviously, but no better/worse than Id expect.

I am using the screw that locks down the collar.

I am definitely able to grind fine enough to choke the machine.. I can grind to where its almost talcom powder. If I take it to choke, and then just barely back off to get a tight ristretto, yes, it stills starts very dark(like it should), but then goes instantly blond before the cone even forms.


I did open the burr chamber and clean everything out, but I didnt pay any specific attention to the hex bolt being tight or not. I did feel the lower burr surface, and it didnt feel loose while touching the burr. On the same note, I thoroughly inspected for rock/debris damage.. there is none.


It is so weird man. It honestly looks like, in every aspect, the grinder is functioning without issue. The ground coffee doesn't look, to the naked eye, any worse than what I get from my Vario. On that note, I can pull textbook shots with my Vario. I did however install the Ditting burrs this morning, so currently, the Vario is out of espresso-commission.

Oh, and my Vendor. Of course, Chris Coffee. Its still in the 30 day return window, plus I bought it new, not buyers remorse, so I have whatever warranty comes on it. Im sure they'll take care of me, or give me a new grinder, or whatever. Top class people they are.


Rob-

Thanks man.

I did the same.. took it apart and cleaned out the burr chamber, spotless. You can get it broken down so its just the lower burr, open to the world. Just like a Mazzer(if you recall your SJ)

I cant tell my looking at them or feeling them, but there doesnt APPEAR to be any defect with the burrs.


John,

Ive taken the adjustment collar off once or twice already, to put it where I wanted for the espresso range, so it should be tight there.

I will open up the burr chamber and make sure everything is tight inside.







The thing that gets me.. is it was working fine. Brand new out of the box. the grinder produced lovely shots, consistently(but with having to grind progressively finer.. burr break in?), and then stabilized.. and then fell off a cliff into not being able to produce anything remotely drinkable. The shots dont pour right, dont look right, dont taste right.

I just dont get it.

I will go over the burr chamber again, making sure everything is tight, and report back.

Jeff, again, as the least experienced on the block with this grinder, I assume it's not a grind retention thing, if it happens with back to back shots?
I'm going to lurk and learn now.

Nah is not retention as im single dosing, and pulling multiple shots in a row.

I'll have another post in the am, right now im hitting the hay.

Again, thanks for responding guys, i really appreciate it.

Sorry about your frustrating experience. I assume you'll get it figured out, but just in case, is it possible something's wrong with your espresso machine? I don't know what that might be (some kind of pressure problem?) but if you don't find a grinder problem / fix, maybe a quick check to make sure your machine is working well before you send the grinder back or do anything too labor intensive.

Good luck!

Phil, earlier he mentioned that he's pulled shots successfully with his other grinders, although we don't know how recently. As you said, maybe there is something funky with his machine, a pressure thing perhaps?
So much for lurking.
Jeff, have you pulled successfully with your Vario since all of this started?

Thanks Rob. I only took a quick look, I saw that he'd changed burrs on his Vario so it wasn't good for espresso at the moment but see now that he said "that morning" so he'd probably ruled out the machine - it sounded to me like the grinder (too) but I wanted to throw out the machine possibility now in case things go on for a while.

Phil