I'm not Jim, but as a Nino owner, I'd say one of the major the things that make me consider it a "ground up" design is that it has a rather re-tooled, much smaller (and hence lower-retention) grind chamber. However, the factor that takes the cake, to me, is the design of the exit chute, where Elektra's innovation is cutting the burr chamber exit tangent to the radius rather than boring a hole radially into it. Paired with their highly polished, angled "slide" chute, the Nino has easily the lowest retention and the lowest waste (from static, overshoot, etc.) of any grinder I've used or seen except the Baratza Vario, unless you single dose of course. It might not seem like much, but these are pretty significant improvements for the home user and are not insignificant improvements for coffee shop use either.

It'll be really interesting to see if/what Compak comes up with for their second revision.

I also think the K10 Fresh aka doserless revision 2 can be interesting to see what they come up with. While I admit that the Nino is a fantastic grinder, and yes it's chute is very clean - it carries a hefty pricetag. Best price I've seen online is 2100 euros which would put it at 600 euros more than the 'supposed' price of the K10 Fresh. Which to me seems very interesting as they are similar performing grinders yes? I think I could live with a little coffee retention for saving 600 euros, if they are close to each other in performance and taste.

Maybe it's me, but I kind of liked the look of the current K10 Doserless, it's very Frankenstein-y which raises the 'cool' factor for me

Either way, it's the ol' 'wait and see' now.

I saw drawings of a new digital Compak K10. It looks very much like the A-8.
Today I got my K10 WBC. With doser! I did not choose for the Push or to wait for the Fresh. I like how the doser breaks up the clumps. And I don't need a digital timer because I use a measure-cup for the beans. And I like to wipe the chute everytime I grind beans.

lolgun wrote:Best price I've seen online is 2100 euros which would put it at 600 euros more than the 'supposed' price of the K10 Fresh.

Give some of the online places a call, or email. I don't have the figures on me now, but I think we all paid sub 1500E when we did our group buy.

http://www.italiankitchenaids.com/ (I think thats where the EU guys and I got ours)
http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com (this one did better NA airfreight)

From memory anyway...

gyro wrote:Give some of the online places a call, or email. I don't have the figures on me now, but I think we all paid sub 1500E when we did our group buy.

http://www.italiankitchenaids.com/ (I think thats where the EU guys and I got ours) 1839 euros
http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com (this one did better NA airfreight) 2100 euros

From memory anyway...

Added prices to your links - it'll still be interesting to see what the machine looks like, and what price it ends at.

NelisB wrote:I saw drawings of a new digital Compak K10. It looks very much like the A-8.
....snip...

I hope that isn't in reference to the Fresh because IMHO that would be a very ugly machine and not at all inline with the K10 series. I'm hoping it looks similar to the Doserless model now but with improved exit chute design and revamped electronics on the front. If it's just a re-tooled A8 then I don't feel it'll be a successor in the market. But that contradicts the information I was given as I was told it would have almost the same body/housing as the current K10's. Perhaps you saw another new grinder?

lolgun wrote:I hope that isn't in reference to the Fresh because IMHO that would be a very ugly machine and not at all inline with the K10 series. I'm hoping it looks similar to the Doserless model now but with improved exit chute design and revamped electronics on the front. If it's just a re-tooled A8 then I don't feel it'll be a successor in the market. But that contradicts the information I was given as I was told it would have almost the same body/housing as the current K10's. Perhaps you saw another new grinder?

My (Compak) supplier showed it to me. He got the drawing from Compak ES. Like Jammin wrote, the timer will be on top of the new spout. This looked just like the unit on the A8. The hopper is also new and can not be swapped with the original K10 hoppers. Let's hope it was not the final drawing, because it sure was ugly!!

But I still don't understand why all of you want doserless grinders. They clumb, they produce static coffee, a lot of coffee stays in the chute/spout which gets old and stale... A doserless grinder won't give you a better espresso.

lolgun wrote:Added prices to your links - it'll still be interesting to see what the machine looks like, and what price it ends at.

But did you ring or email them to see what price they would actually do it for?

NelisB wrote:
But I still don't understand why all of you want doserless grinders. They clumb, they produce static coffee, a lot of coffee stays in the chute/spout which gets old and stale... A doserless grinder won't give you a better espresso.

Clumping from my experience is not really an issue. Just tamp the clumps down. I'm not really a subscriber to voodoo methods such as "nutating".

I like doserless for aesthetic reasons and I personally like it better for home use due to its simplicity.I think a doser is unnecessary moving parts. This argument can go on for ages but that's my preference.

On a commercial seen the head barista Kirby of a popular Melbourne cafe called Mailing Room (who I had a barista lesson with) got the grinders replaced with doserless ones and they save about 3kg/6.6lbs. I have had many "clumpy" ground espressos served that have tasted great.

AidanC wrote:Clumping from my experience is not really an issue. Just tamp the clumps down.

That's true. I had many great espresso's coming from a K30, which is a clumping champion.

AidanC wrote: On a commercial seen the head barista Kirby of a popular Melbourne cafe called Mailing Room (who I had a barista lesson with) got the grinders replaced with doserless ones and they save about 3kg/6.6lbs.

In a popular cafe, the coffee that stays in the chute and spout won't have the time to get old and stale. I think doserless grinders are great for commercial use.

In a popular cafe, the coffee that stays in the chute and spout won't have the time to get old and stale. I think doserless grinders are great for commercial use.

Got a point there, I'll be honest I have never owned a doser grinder I thought it would have some sort of chute that was similar that would get grounds stuck.

I guess ill have to brush the grinds out .

I usually just purge some coffee out or just drink some stale beans as well .