SJM wrote:Thanks LaDan, I will try that the next time if there is a next time. There was definitely the hum that indicates that the machine was getting power; it felt for all the world like there just wasn't enough oomph to get the darned burrs to overcome the load and start spinning.

Sounds like the capacitors are weak. I am one of those that had the the problem. Josh sent me a larger capacitor to replace the smaller of the two.

That "oomph" is torque. The capacitors get loaded (recharged) to their "capacity". Like an instant rechargeable battery. The easiest way to understand what they are doing there is to think of them as if they are strong springs. Charging them is like compressing the springs. Then, when you turn the switch On, BANG!!!! they send a huge charge of electricity (torque) to the motor. This is only to make it START moving. That's all. After that, the current that comes from your power cord will be enough to continue the spinning of the motor. So when the capacitors are weak, there is no spring to kick the motor to make it start turning.

So what happens sometimes is that you have "too many" fractured beans loaded between burr teeth and that's too much for the capacitors to start the turning. After the initial weak bang there is nothing that the current can do.

I suspect that your cleaning to make the problem go away was not cleaning at all, but just removing the broken beans from the burrs. Inserting the allen key and turning the burrs a little backward gives the capacitors a little room to move forward and crash whatever beans that get them stuck.

So, are there two different ways that the capacitors could be the problem?

I had gotten the impression that people who had had this stalling issue had had under-powered capacitors. The specs on mine don't seem to indicate that that could be the problem.

So, could capacitors simply fade/fail?

As I understand it Compak received some weak/defective capacitors. The rating would be correct but the caps or cap just aren't up to snuff.

Okay, that makes perfect sense, but when I sent that picture to Josh, I thought that was exactly the information that he was looking for. After he saw what the capacitors looked like he seemed to think they were not from any defective batch.

I can revisit the possibility with him, but it felt as if he were quite sure of his facts and that while I certainly had an issue, he didn't think it was THAT issue.

Diagnositics....tricky....

Well then he should tell you what needs to be done to make it work as it should. The grinder is only 2 years old & it shouldn't be stalling out.

I'm sure he will...

SJM wrote:<image>

So, are there two different ways that the capacitors could be the problem?

I had gotten the impression that people who had had this stalling issue had had under-powered capacitors. The specs on mine don't seem to indicate that that could be the problem.

So, could capacitors simply fade/fail?

Susan, read this Compak K10 - Single dosing sometimes stalls motor about the problem that guy had. Then read page 2, starting with Nicolas post where he was quoting my 2 PMs to him. Then my 2 posts that follows.

It's getting a little technical there, I was writing about RUN capacitors and START capacitors. It looks from your picture that you have a 70 micro farad capacitor, and a 40 micro farad. (mF). Then you have that white plastic box which I think is the relay. That means that you have the START capacitors (works as I first explained about the "BANG!!!!" thing).

I don't have that relay and capacitors. I have the RUN capacitors which are connected all the time (no BANG). Read my posts at the link above.

Compak was using the relay and START. Then, they changed to the RUN without relay and smaller capacitors (saving money???). I am not sure that the known problem is with your configuration (START). I think it was with the RUN, and they initially put in too small a capacitor, and then the complains started and they realized they needed a larger one.

You see, what I am thinking, that your K10 is from BEFORE the problem. Unless of course they have problems with capacitors before the change to a cheaper setup. (like mine).

But it still possible that you have a defective capacitor. It happens.

Got a spinning head already with all of these explanations? LOL. Sorry if I am confusing more then helping.

LaDan wrote: Sorry if I am confusing more then helping.

Nope, not at all.
That tied a bunch of loose ends together.
Which doesn't mean I know what the answer is yet, but now I'm leaning towards it being 'A capacitor problem' but not 'THE capacitor problem' that we've been trying to lump it in with. Or at least something like that??

I was worried about it big time the first time it happened.
Now I'm more curious than concerned.
As long as it sorts itself each time I can manage.
If we can "fix" it? All the better.

Susan

Now that I have read your post and the links again, I have another question (or set of questions).

Is there an inherent difference between "RUN" and "START" capacitors, or is the difference in how they are used?

Previously I had imagined that we all had a START and a RUN capacitor (and somehow I also imagined that the smaller of the two was the Start and the larger was the Run -- workhorse), but now I think you are telling me that we either have two RUNS or two STARTS??? and that if we/I have two STARTS we also have a Relay?

Yes?
It's amazing how slowly I am creeping up on understanding this; thank you for your patience.
Sigh....

Yes you got it. 2 runs, or 2 start. Not a combination.

Relay - start.
No relay - run.

A capacitor is a capacitor. Run or start is just how they connect them, or use them. They differ only in size, etc. Depending on the need per the usage.

Each usage needs it's own size of a capacitor.