Baratza Sette - End User Reports - Page 50

February 21st, 2017, 4:07 pm

cmin wrote:I've got mine on the way so I'll be interested in testing as I'm a single doser, my Vario is basically 0 retention after first dose or so which fills some voids then it's spot on every dose after. Made two shots this morning, 18in/18out and then 18in/17.9out but quick tap on side got that .1 out pry from static.

Plus interested in testing against Vario for taste

This has been my experience with my 7 1/2 year old Vario (summer 2009... One of the first). It's had no repairs, and never missed a day in service, so it must still have the original plastic spur gear on the motor. And I've only ever removed the upper burr for cleaning, maybe three times... At most. It's always been such a letdown, because it's always so clean. I don't know whether to be pleased, or mad that I wasted my time looking.

Back to the Sette, the thought is occurring to me that for the folks who have that dirvetrain failure where it labors for a while then dies completely, if that is a case of overload from a more extreme or cumulative form of backup related to the retention we are talking about here?

-Peter

February 21st, 2017, 4:10 pm

pcrussell50 wrote:Back to the Sette, the thought is occurring to me that for the folks who have that dirvetrain failure where it labors for a while then dies completely, if that is a case of overload from a more extreme or cumulative form of backup related to the retention we are talking about here?
-Peter

That is exactly why I started to contact support, to see if this is whats the cause of the failures.

#493: Post by **McPickle** » February 21st, 2017, 4:13 pm

IMAWriter wrote:Weeeeellll, as I single dosed into a spotlessly clean grinder...I mean spotlessly, ground the "shot", and ended up with 20.6 from a 21 gram load, wouldn't it make sense that I'll find EXACTLY .04 grams once I brush every single speck of the grinder's insides?
I'm not sure why that fact isn't understood. 1 grinding session. Stale grind doesn't multiply or reproduce, it is what the scale SAYS it is.

Baratza's findings which I don't doubt, are based on higher altitude, dryer climate, probably a NEW or nearly new grinder..which I assure you needs 15 #'s at least to get a true test. My grinders first cleaning revealed about 10+ grams retained, same as my Vario did upon it's 1st cleaning. Those burrs in the Sette are even more ion need of break-in.

Those who have put 20+ #'s or more, and are having a 1.4-ish retention? I've put forth several theories, none which can be verified, I realize. They are THEORIES.
What I AM saying is those folks with what spitz.me described as grinds stuck in the throat of a throat-less grinder (I THINK I know what he means here) may have an issue of a poorly aligned burr set, or some other issue for what he seems to describe as "sticky" retention.

When I receive my restored MCAL, I'll do some serious grinding...and weighing, as I always do. I use the Sette as a single dosing grinder. Thus, every shot I grind will be pre-weighed and post weighed. I'll just grind into the bin, as I often do.

Out of curiosity, has anyone check retention on a coarser setting, say 20? If you find 60 grams and 59 comes back, then you lightly rap the side, and you end up with 59.4? I'd take that.
Then, try the same thing at your espresso setting...but less...no need to waste. Maybe 36 grams in. If you NOW show a higher % of retention, say 2 grams after the light tapping on the aside, THEN we can say there is a correlation between the tightness of the grind. That said, as Jim Schulman explained, the operation of the Sette as it applies to grind fineness is unique. I would STRONGLY urge ALL here to read Jim's complete assessment. He is uniquely qualified to render comprehensive findings.

Edited for typos and clarity...sort of.

Very unhelpful post, why not just do it? Do 5 back to back tests and record your results, then drop your burr and take a photo like posted above. I bet you'll have similar results to the rest of us. Whether it's different at a coarser grind level would also be a nice test.

#494: Post by **McPickle** » February 21st, 2017, 4:15 pm

bachampion wrote:I got to play around with the Fiorenzato F4 and the Settle 270W at the same time.

I tested the retention of both by cleaning out each one as best as I could (removed burrs, brushed and scraped all the grinds and then using a straw attached a vacuum sucked out all the grinds). Then measured out 20g of coffee beans, ground it and tried to remove as much retention as I could by tapping/hitting the side with my hand and pulse grinding. I then measured the ground coffee. I repeated this 5 times for each grinder.

The F4 had an average of 4.3g
The Settle had an average of 1.6g

How much of this would get pushed out with the next dose I was unable to measure. I think the settle most of it would come out at the start of the next does, while the F4 I think some would remain there until the next clean out.

With either grinder, a purge at the start would solve the problem of retention but would mean a few wasted beans. Also if your not single dosing you are going to get more retention as you will have half ground coffee in the burrs anyway which means another good reason to do a quick purge.

Very good test and post. I'm experiencing the same results with 270W and if I took a photo it would be identical.

#495: Post by **lgibson** » February 21st, 2017, 5:01 pm

" to the Sette, the thought is occurring to me that for the folks who have that dirvetrain failure where it labors for a while then dies completely, if that is a case of overload from a more extreme or cumulative form of backup related to the retention we are talking"

baratza warns that the grounds must not back up into the chute. Amen!
The scale malfuntioned on my first Sette and the "stop" button would not work. I watchd helplessly as the motor ground itself to a halt when it died with a flash from within. The 6 spaces within the conical burr were packed so tight I had to hammer them out. But the damage was done.
My advice: reduce your dose if your grinds are coming up out of the portafilter and touching the chute.

#496: Post by **IMAWriter** » February 21st, 2017, 5:52 pm

bachampion wrote:Rob, why not drop the burrs and measure what you find. I'm also interested in the results.

I see a lot of people talking about how their grinder is (not just settle) is almost zero retention. They say this as when they single dose they put in 18g and 18g comes out. But that's not the right way to test it, as there might have been 2g in there to start you add 18g of coffee, the first 2g is the old stale coffee, the next 16g is new coffee and the remaining 2g stays in the grinder until the next dose.

The only real way to test it that I know if is to remove the burrs, clean out all the grinds and then put in 18g of coffee and see what comes out.

]\Ben, this is EXACTLY what I did. Sometimes I think they speak a different language up north!! My mum was from 'Winterpeg" so no animus towards my Canadian brothers and sisters.

FWIW, my sette came directly from Baratza, not that it should matter. It was NIB. it sprayed a bit in the beginning, but after cleaning it (I think after about 3#s), no appreciable spray, straight down perfect into my (then) Strega PF, no funnel necessary. With the Caravel's teeny tiny basket, an OE small funnel kept things in check. I also made Doubly sure not to have the mound of grind anywhere near the "mouth" of the Sette. I basically don't use the hooks, as with a 2.,7 second grinding period, and a non weighing version, WHY?

Question I haven't asked. Are these retention "issues" coming from the W version mainly? My Sette is the 270 timer version.

February 21st, 2017, 6:03 pm

IMAWriter wrote:Question I haven't asked. Are these retention "issues" coming from the W version mainly? My Sette is the 270 timer version.

I have the W version. But I would really be surprised if there was a difference between the two around the burr/discharge chute.

February 21st, 2017, 6:19 pm

Wouldn't know either, unless the scale device was occupying any space up there..I really shouldn't even comment without the W. Dumb on my part.

#499: Post by **Headala** » February 22nd, 2017, 11:03 am

My Sette W is working like a champ again after replacing the ring burr, gearbox, and motor about a month ago.

It does retain some grinds in the middle of the cone burr holder. I don't know how this could be corrected, unless baratza used fewer supports or widened the radial space in there.

For me, I don't single dose and I don't change coffees often. Usually around once every 2 weeks, depending on what I'm roasting.

Sette W still beats my Vario in the cup, and really beats it in the area of workflow/convenience. Baratza said we get a low-retention grinder, and that's what we have.

#500: Post by **Shife** » February 22nd, 2017, 2:16 pm

All this discussion over a theoretical 2 grams.