Good morning,

First post!
I recently bought a Mokita (Tecnosystem 108CL) - the name is largely irrelevant, as it has the 57mm Quaha group common to L'Elit, etc., and a Baratza Encore. I practised with some Costco charred-bucks beans (Seriously. Burned...) to get the general feel and then bought some freshly roasted from a local mircoroastery (Saint-Henri Godshot).

Much ado about the 'not grinding fine enough' for Espresso. I don't have an SEM (or any microscope for that matter ) to ensure uniform particularity, but precalibration, it was capable of entirely choking the machine with a firm tamp at '4'. Post-calibration, more like 7-8.
Right now, I'm grinding at 8 and dosing 17g - a level double basket pre-tamp.

I'd say I'm tamping with 10#...any more and the pump backs up and 2oz takes about a minute! I'll get the scale out this evening.

The question : how does one judge 'too fine'? I saw Sweet Maria's (I think) pinch-method and the Encore appears able to produce talcum powder. If I set at '4', the beans no longer go into the burrs...

Long story short : with my current method, 35s 2oz total pull. I'll head on down to the roastery and see what they produce, then judge from that.

The Encore has an internal calibration screw that is sometimes adjusted to a finer setting during testing. This is why your grinder is capable of choking the machine. The easiest way to tell if your grinding to fine is the choking of the machine. Taste your espresso's. Once you have the grind dialed back enough that your coffee doesn't taste bitter or sour then you are dialed in. Bitter means foo fine (over extracted), sour means too course (under extracted). 25-30 second 2 oz pour is more of a guideline. Go with your taste buds.

Funnily enough, I opened it last night and it was in the 'coarse' window, but was able to grind fine enough at 4-6.

If we're going on taste alone and watching the pour-colour...it appears it works quite well for espresso, contrary to the 'it doesn't grind fine enough'. It's no Robur...but

I dialed in a friends out of the box and was able to pull decent espresso at setting 5 with a full city roast. At least now you know you can go finer if you have to. Also keep in mind due to the limited amount of steps on the encore you can use tamping to fine tune your pulls if you have to.

Recently I recommended to my mother-in-law that she buy a Baratza Encore for her Pavoni semi-automatic espresso machine. I was a little worried to see if it would actually be able to grind fine enough. Low and behold this grinder was capable of grinding a Turkish powder. I was quite surprised honestly...and happy. I set it up around 6-7 for a good espresso pour in an unpressurized portafilter (it was pressurized originally and I broke the mechanism trying to clean it...oops...but in the end it actually improved it substantially).
So bravo Baratza! The Encore has great bang for the buck and easily grinds fine enough for espresso (at least this one).

Burner0000 wrote:Once you have the grind dialed back enough that your coffee doesn't taste bitter or sour then you are dialed in. Bitter means foo fine (over extracted), sour means too course (under extracted).

For years now we've heard that sour and bitter are the results of brewing too cold (sour) or too hot (bitter). Is there a way to determine the factor (grind or temp) that has predominated in determining the sourness or the bitterness?

And/or....what have I missed this time????

Susan

In the past at least, some Encores indeed did not grind fine enough... Around two years ago I tried to cut costs and bought an Encore when I started with espresso. Even though I re-calibrated it to the finest setting, it wasn't fine enough. In the end I was simply so put off by the plastic internal construction that instead of contacting Baratza customer service, I exchanged it for another brand of grinder.

Burner0000 wrote:At least now you know you can go finer if you have to. Also keep in mind due to the limited amount of steps on the encore you can use tamping to fine tune your pulls if you have to.

No, I cannot!! I beg thine pardon...the beans will simply not enter the burrs at 4 and below now. 5 makes talcum powder...if I vociferously 'encourage' the beans to enter...

Indeed, once 'coarsely' dialed in with grinder, tamping takes over as the next controllable.
And the journey begins!

Looks like it's a perfectly-OK entry point.

L

Yeah you can make an Encore work. You can also make it stepless by removing the plastic index piece and wrapping some tape around the throat of the hopper.

When i moved from Encore to Pharos though, i never went back. Way more flavours and nuances. Similarly with syphons... The Encore brews are more likely to be edgy or bitter while my Bunn G1 is sweeter and tastier. So my Encore is sitting unused on my counter. I took it travelling with me at Christmas to make syphons but it is pretty unforgiving. It can be very good but it's not all that consistent.

The thing that better grinders provide is more flavours and more forgiveness (meaning more roasts and coffees taste good and work well without fiddling with the grind)

SJM wrote:For years now we've heard that sour and bitter are the results of brewing too cold (sour) or too hot (bitter). Is there a way to determine the factor (grind or temp) that has predominated in determining the sourness or the bitterness?

And/or....what have I missed this time????

Susan

I was limited with both my Hario Skerton and Macap stepped when trying to dial in for espresso. I'd tamp lighter for a darker roast and harder for a lighter roast. I got decent results for a while then eventually converted it to stepless.

VA2GXB wrote: No, I cannot!! I beg thine pardon...the beans will simply not enter the burrs at 4 and below now. 5 makes talcum powder...if I vociferously 'encourage' the beans to enter...

Indeed, once 'coarsely' dialed in with grinder, tamping takes over as the next controllable.
And the journey begins!

Looks like it's a perfectly-OK entry point.

This could just be oil on the beans. Or well oil or residual grounds on the burrs. Set the calibration screw to finer so you have more steps to work with I meant.