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Would a convex tamper help reduce channeling in Cimbali S/1?

Need advice about equipment or want to share your latest discovery?

Link to "Would a convex tamper help reduce channeling in Cimbali S/1?"by Kristi on Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:51 pm

Dan in Buyer's Guide to the LaCimbali Junior DT1 http://www.home-barista.com/junior-buyers-guide.html noted that "I learned that getting proper extractions from Junior demands that the barista pay more attention to technique, otherwise there's a risk of channeling."

I've had the (probably 10 year old) manual vibe Cimbali Jr S/1 for about 2 weeks now, and am still learning about it. When I was testing the Cimbali Jr grinder that came with it, I got a bit of channeling, but thought maybe that was just the grinder, since the Macap never channeled. But this morning, with the Macap, for the first time, I got a sprite. I do know that I was a tad careless this morning leveling after doing Stockfleth, but.... Incidentally, the cimbali jr grinder produced some superb ristrettos.

I've also noticed that may times it will take up to 10-15 sec from start of pull before I get a single stream. (7 sec before any drips)

(once I got the temp straightened out by removing the insulation that I had added, the taste has been great!)

I am using the EPNW "synesso" basket (flat bottom, bottom a bit smaller than top). http://espressoparts.com/product/W10813

I think my first tamper was a Lava convex that I used for a while on the Silvia, and gave away with a Rocky I was selling - replaced it with a 1-st line rosewood flat tamper. If I recall correctly, I got more channeling with the convex than the flat, with Silvia. While I was using the Solis exclusively, I used a RB flat tamper (53) that I loved because it was a bit shorter than the rosewood 58.

So if I get a new tamper, I may very likely get a new RB piston and use it on the blue handle that now has the 53.

I have looked many times through HB Tamper Roadshow, and searched a bunch, but not found anything definitive on convex vs pour.

When I first got the new S/1 head gasket and first started pours, the results were superb. This changed at least partially because I unlocked and adjusted the OPV from 14-16 to 9.5 . (Apparently USA models have the OPV locked closed while European models OPVs are used normally.) This necessitated a more coarse grind. And with it came the channeling. And with that came the hesitancy of the pour streams to coalesce. So one thing I will certainly play with in coming days is upping that pressure and watching taste and pour.

The question of this thread, to folks who have used convex tampers (slight, or moderate, or extreme), is, would a convex tamper help the (non-pre-infusion) saturation of the puck in a way so as to possibly/likely help avoid channeling and encourage coalescing of the pour streams?

Thanks!
Kristi
 
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Link to "Would a convex tamper help reduce channeling in Cimbali S/1?"by jesawdy on Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:17 am

Kristi-

Preinfusion is for wussies!! ( :lol: , just kidding)

My personal opinion on convex versus flat tampers is that it just doesn't matter. Convex *might* be more forgiving, but I am not convinced. That being said, I reach for and use a slight convex tamper (Bumper) and a euro curve tamper (EPNW HB Compressore) on my Cimbali with equally good results and VERY even naked extractions in the same Synesso basket. I am only occasionally visited by a "spritzy" (I wish I could say the same on Silvia).

Now, if I had a nicer tamper with a flat bottom, I might find myself reaching for it a bit more often.
Jeff Sawdy
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Link to "Would a convex tamper help reduce channeling in Cimbali S/1?"by Kristi on Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:22 pm

So I'm a wuss!!! :twisted: :lol:

What I need is for the tamper roadshow to visit me so I can go totally crazy!!! Yes, I had been wondering what a slight curve would do... I had been looking at a RB American curve piston which is a slight curve. A problem I'm having is telling in advance which are the slight and which are the extreme curves.

Can I ask what brew pressure you run your Cimbali at?
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Link to "Would a convex tamper help reduce channeling in Cimbali S/1?"by Kristi on Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:39 pm

Well, looking at a few basics:
more coffee in basket = more pressure needed

finer ground coffee = more pressure needed

I upped the OPV to 11 or so.

The cimbali jr grinder works just fine on a slightly more fine setting, and I get no channeling using the basket that Chris' shipped to me with the Chris' naked Cimbali pf (which tech Tony identified as a Cimbali double, which I take to be a "larger" Cimbali double - epnw sells 2 Cimbali doubles - 12 and 14 gram). The pull was slow. I had overpacked the little basket. The shot was VERY rich and tasty!


So I don't think I have a problem, I think I have a learning curve with this particular machine.

Though almost whatever I do, I get yummy shots.
Kristi
 
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Link to "Would a convex tamper help reduce channeling in Cimbali S/1?"by cafeIKE on Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:59 pm

I have a Reg 58.3 American Curve and flat generic 57mm.

The advantages of the Reg are the piston is more tapered so I can gauge level and depth more easily than on the generic.

With the flat I have to dose a bit less, one rap on the counter instead of two, because the American Curve gives me just a skosh more clearance with the enhanced shower screen

Other than that, it's swings and roundabouts.
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Link to "Would a convex tamper help reduce channeling in Cimbali S/1?"by Kristi on Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:27 pm

cafeIKE wrote:I have a Reg 58.3 American Curve and flat generic 57mm.

The advantages of the Reg are the piston is more tapered so I can gauge level and depth more easily than on the generic.

With the flat I have to dose a bit less, one rap on the counter instead of two, because the American Curve gives me just a skosh more clearance with the enhanced shower screen

Other than that, it's swings and roundabouts.


Thanks - I had to laugh about the "new enhanced" E61 screen - the web pattern looks strikingly similar to the pattern on my 12 year old S/1. :lol:
Image

Yours isn't curved very much, if it is similar in curve to the old ones I just looked at, and mine is almost flat, but still does have a teeny curve.

I had been thinking about this one so I just went and ordered a base
(B-S Base_SS 58.0 US_curve 1 26.50 26.50 )
for my handle. His shipping is cheap ($5) so that helped!

Thanks!
Kristi
 
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Link to "Would a convex tamper help reduce channeling in Cimbali S/1?"by Kristi on Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:31 pm

cafeIKE wrote:I have a Reg 58.3 American Curve and flat generic 57mm.

The advantages of the Reg are the piston is more tapered so I can gauge level and depth more easily than on the generic.

With the flat I have to dose a bit less, one rap on the counter instead of two, because the American Curve gives me just a skosh more clearance with the enhanced shower screen

Other than that, it's swings and roundabouts.



Many thanks for that link - just ordered a couple. As always, it's the shipping that kills! :roll:

By the way, did receive the American curve 58 RB piston and like it. Very very slight curve!
Kristi
 
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