Working with my new La Cimbali Max Hybrid

[zin1953]

It arrived today. I'll start dialing it in tomorrow Saturday . . .

[RAS]

Jason,

I think you're going to like it... As I do mine. I'll be curious what grind setting you end up at. Dialing mine in meant going from #5 (where my old Junior liked to be) down to #2. Man did I get some gushers on my way to that setting!

Also, a question for other conical and conical+planar users... is it wise to dial the grinder down to find the zero-point? Not sure why this would matter other than to be able to better compare your settings with someone else...

I hope this is a weekend of great coffee for you.

[cafeIKE]

Also, a question for other conical and conical+planar users... is it wise to dial the grinder down to find the zero-point? Not sure why this would matter other than to be able to better compare your settings with someone else...

Unless both grinders are in the same room pulling shots on the same machine on the same roast...

And oh, yeah, the thickness of the burrsets varies...

[zin1953]

OK, I couldn't wait. Friday night, I ground some Espresso Vivace Dolce (roasted 02/09 which I received on 2/11) at the "factory" setting (i.e.: where the machine was set when it arrived) of slightly over "5" on their dial. The espresso was much "thicker" in texture than the shots I'd been pulling on my La Val using the Mini Mazzer or my Quick Mill doserless stepless. Delicious!

I went upstairs thinking about the morning to come . . .

This morning came early, thanks to my chocolate labrador retriever who steadfastly refuses to look at the calendar before waking me up for breakfast at 5:35. No matter how many times I attempt to explain the concept of "weekend" to her, it just doesn't take hold. OK, so after feeding the brown dog, I finished off the last of that bag of coffee by pulling another shot at roughly "3" and another at "2.5," taking a small sip of each and pouring the rest down the sink. Then, since I was now (sadly) awake, I did my weekly backflushing, cleaning and maintenance with Joe-Glo, ran a sink shot (decaf) through the machine, and went back to bed.

When I woke up some three hours later, I went downstairs, pulled out a "fresh" half-pound bag of Vivace Dolce (also roasted on 2/9, but kept in the freezer until this morning), and made my once-daily cappuccino, along with a latte for my wife. As I walked back up, I found myself thinking, Well when you pay this much for something, you're psychologically pre-disposed to believe it makes a significant difference; I'll have to watch that.

Now, obviously Lynn knows I have new grinder in the kitchen, but immediately after taking her first sip, she proclaimed, "Wow! That new grinder does make a difference -- I really notice it in the finish." Well, that's where I was noticing it, too, so . . .

The finish exhibits much more "cocoa" richness than the coffee had when using the Mazzer of Quick Mill, even in milk. Absolutely delicious!

I still need to play around, and dial it in, but so far every shot is richer and shows more depth (with or without milk) than it does with my other grinders. I'll post more later.

* * * * *

Two additional notes about the grinder itself:

a) it was absolutely spotless when it arrived -- no coffee beans were ever run through the grinder to check/test it; and,
b) it is significantly louder than I expected, and deeper in tone (think Harley versus Suzuki). The Mazzer is certainly quieter.

I wonder if a rubber pad underneath the grinder will dampen the sound . . .

Cheers,
Jason

[Marshall]

Don't be afraid to experiment with a wide variety of settings. It took me two weeks to realize the sweet spot on mine was from 3/4 to 1, with an occasional 1/2 and 1-1/4 for outlier coffees.

Not only is the cup improved from my Mini, but I do much less adjusting as the coffees age (usually dialing down 1/4 to 1/2 over the course of a week).

It probably sounds like sour grapes (and maybe it is), but I think the Max made a bigger difference than the GS3 would have. (Yes, I have used the GS3.)

[jmcphail]

Just a curious question about your grind setting, at what setting do your burrs start to clash? On my Max/Hybrid I find they start to clash when the setting is at "1".

Don't be afraid to experiment with a wide variety of settings. It took me two weeks to realize the sweet spot on mine was from 3/4 to 1, with an occasional 1/2 and 1-1/4 for outlier coffees.

[Marshall]

Just a curious question about your grind setting, at what setting do your burrs start to clash? On my Max/Hybrid I find they start to clash when the setting is at "1".

I have no idea. Obviously it is below (probably well below) 1/2 on mine. BTW mine was left by the factory at 3 or 4, which let the coffee gush through. I don't think "factory setting" means anything on these machines. They don't come with a "recommended" sticker arrow like the Mazzers.

[jmcphail]

I noticed on mine, when I took it apart for cleaning, that there were scribe marks on the wheel. I think these were markings from assembly indicating where to align the band of numbers, put there after the grinder was zeroed. It's a working theory anyway.

I'd initially heard that these grinders weren't zeroed and that the numbers don't mean anything, but then I found the scribe marks...

Before reassembling the adjustment gear and marking wheel I dialed the upper burr down gradually by hand until the burrs clashed slightly. Then when I fastened the gear and marking wheel in position, 1 lined up centered in the view window.

What I don't get is why they marked "1" instead of "0", but there are two scribe marks on the wheel - one where "1" lines up, and one where "0" lines up, about a quarter-inch apart or so. Maybe a miscommunication during assembly, or a do-over, a mistake?

[cafeIKE]

There's a dial

[cannonfodder]

On both of my Max grinders, I turned them on and dialed them down until the burrs started to touch. Then I pulled the hopper off and removed the index ring and reset it to, or very close to zero. You just remove those three screws and lift.

[jmcphail]

Do either of your index rings have marks on them that correspond to "0" on the number decal?

On both of my Max grinders, I turned them on and dialed them down until the burrs started to touch. Then I pulled the hopper off and removed the index ring and reset it to, or very close to zero. You just remove those three screws and lift.

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[zin1953]

I don't think "factory setting" means anything on these machines. They don't come with a "recommended" sticker arrow like the Mazzers.

Just to be clear, I don't think the numbers mean anything specific either, which is why I put the word "factory" in quotation marks in my post above. The numbers obviously mean something relative to one another, in that 2 is larger than 1, and 5 produces a larger grind than 2; but I think the number at which the grinder leaves the factory is decidedly arbitrary.

Cheers,
Jason

[jmcphail]

I didn't either, but when I had it apart for the first time and saw the scribe marks line up... it seems like someone zeroed mine.

Since the number ring is a decal on the "big wheel" (index ring?) that is bolted to the gear and the upper burr carrier, and not adjustable once applied, zeroing has to occur before applying the decal, no?

[Marshall]

On both of my Max grinders, I turned them on and dialed them down until the burrs started to touch. Then I pulled the hopper off and removed the index ring and reset it to, or very close to zero. You just remove those three screws and lift.

I get the "how," but I don't get the "why."

[jmcphail]

Being able to compare grind settings could provide a sanity check for equipment or technique defects, or even be an additional element to the "mass, time, temp & volume" brew recipes people share when trying new beans.

Not trying to be a smarty-pants - I'm a noob. I've always managed to disprove anyone who ever thought I was smart...

[Cafesp]

Unless both grinders are in the same room pulling shots on the same machine on the same roast...

And oh, yeah, the thickness of the burr sets varies...

Same room pulling shots on the same machine on the same roast but... not same grinder!
Weekdays I use Versalab M3, weekends I need Cimbali Max Hybrid( extra serving to co- workers, my project construction workers, neighbors and my Mother in law always stays with us on Sat then my wife joints in )

Of course, can't match the grind setting on the 2 different grinders!
Can't beat the convenience one single shot at a time of the DOSERLESS Versalab M3 ; but I ( IMHO ) tend to like the grind quality (same Conical&Flat burr set style), the cafe taste of the CMH more plus the cleanness and NO STATIC of it.
Still need more time to ENJOY playing with them
(Who said " The difference of BOYS and MEN is the PRICE of their TOYS!" ) I've read somewhere like an ad. trying to talk you into spending and even smart guys like us ; for example zin1953 still be tricked in!

Cafesp

[zin1953]

Few more random notes . . .

I'm still impressed amazed at just how much difference the Cimbali Max Hybrid makes to the shot quality. I mean, obviously I thought it would; why else would I have purchased a new grinder? But I'm surprised at just how big a difference it is. (This should point out the obvious, that regardless of getting my first Pavoni Europiccola in 1976, I'm still a "newbie" at heart with a lot to learn.)

Took it down to "1" without choking the La Val, and back up to 1.25; now it's back at 1. So far, it's very forgiving, in that the flavor profile across the board -- from 1 to 5 -- is superior to what I was getting from the Mazzer. Also, the grinds are much fluffier and there is much less static with this new grinder than with either the Mini Mazzer or the Quick Mill, and the doser sweeps much cleaner than the Mazzer as well.

In fact, I'm enjoying the Max Hybrid so much, I haven't plugged the Mazzer back in to try shots side-by-side which, in the interests of science, you understand . . . .

If I remember, I'll try that tomorrow.

Cheers,
Jason

[perstare]

Congratulations, Jason, on your new Cimbali Hybrid. I'm jealous. Your enthusiasm is quite contagious!

I'm still very new to this so forgive me if my question is elementary. I want to understand how much
"play" or distance there is between "1" and "2" and since you are so close to "0," does that mean you cannot grind any finer (as for the powder fineness required for Turkish coffee)?

Appreciate your taking the time to post your results.

perstare

[cannonfodder]

I get the "how," but I don't get the "why."

I had the machine apart for cleaning so I set the zero, or set it close to zero. Simple as that.

The grind index is relative and its only real purpose is to provide you with a return point. So if I grind at 5.75 for espresso, when I crank it up to 20 for drip I can return back to 5.75 and pick up where I left off at.

[zin1953]

Congratulations, Jason, on your new Cimbali Hybrid. I'm jealous. Your enthusiasm is quite contagious!

Thank you, but one shouldn't overlook the fact I may just be over-caffeinated!

. . . does that mean you cannot grind any finer (as for the powder fineness required for Turkish coffee)?

You have me at a slight disadvantage, as I've only ever made Turkish Israeli coffee once -- with a psycho Israeli ex-girlfriend, and she brought the coffee back, pre-ground and in foil packets, from a visit back to Tel-Aviv. [shudder] Fortunately I'm married now -- to someone else (Thank God!) -- and I think the restraining orders are still in effect . . .

Sorry. Where were we?

Ah, yes. I remember. Grinding on "1" is much finer than where I was on the Mini Mazzer, more like Turkish in fact. If we go by the old comparison that coffee beans ground for espresso should be the approximate size of sugar crystals, this is much more like "superfine" crystals, but not as fine as powdered sugar. Does that make sense? (I hope so; I'm not sure how else to explain it.)

Cheers,
Jason