Working with my new La Cimbali Max Hybrid - Page 7

[cafeIKE]

With a new toy, or coffee for that matter, have a couple of POUNDS at hand to explore the edges and see what changes.

[RapidCoffee]

I have no direct experience using a Super Jolly. But, might I suggest you read the last two posts [mine, and Ken Fox's reply] in the "Can It Beat the Robur?" thread. Click here.

My take on it was that, while both the SJ and the CMH "scored" 2-0-2 against the Robur, the CMH scored better than the SJ while doing so . . .

IMHO, this is the wrong take on Jim's vastly entertaining "Beat the Robur" tests. The key word is entertainment, as noted in the very opening line of the thread:

And now for the Entertainment Portion of this Review:

The table you quoted shows the Rancilio Rocky outperforming the SJ at 2-0-2... but I don't see anyone rushing to sell their SJ in order to buy a Rocky replacement. The Mazzer Mini turned in the worst score by far (only the Pede manual came close), the Versalab M3 did poorly, and the Macap MXK scored much better for Jim than for me (I would never have scored it over the Robur).

The CMH sounds like a great grinder. But all of the "Titan" grinders that we tested fall into that category. This includes the Super Jolly, one of the most widely used commercial grinders on the planet.

[zin1953]

John,

I'm not disagreeing with your post; I'm just disagreeing with part of your post.

The Win-Loss-Tie portion of Jim's "box score" is shorthand, and both grinders (SJ & CMH) had a record -- as I noted above -- of 2-0-2 v. the Robur. However, in terms of overall point differential, I read it as the CMH outscored the Robur by the highest margin (+4). The Macap MXK ranked 2nd, also with 2-0-2 but a +3 margin over the Robur. Finally, the only other grinder that "won" on points was the Compak WBC with a +1, but in the "standings," it was 1-1-2.

Clearly none of this means very much. Even though the test was (IMHO) well thought out and well set up, it's too small of a sample to be anything close to definitive; also, just as with wine tasting, personal palate preference covers a wide range of variation. The human palate is not a machine, and one may score the exact same shot higher/lower than another -- to wit, your take (v. Jim's) on the MXK.

The CMH sounds like a great grinder. But all of the "Titan" grinders that we tested fall into that category. This includes the Super Jolly, one of the most widely used commercial grinders on the planet.

I agree, John. 100%!

[RapidCoffee]

I just don't see the "Beat the Robur" test as a good way of comparing grinders (other than the obvious comparison to the Robur). Perhaps Jim will weigh in with a dissenting opinion. For now, I'll merely point out that, in addition to the very small sample size, the CMH and the SJ tests were two weeks apart. That's fine if you're comparing them to the Robur, but unacceptable if you're trying to compare them to one another.

I don't see anyone rushing to sell their SJ in order to buy a Rocky replacement.

OTOH, at least one CGer seems to think that the Rocky beats the pants off the CMH!

[HB]

Mine is coming in today so I will be at home dialing it in tonight. Any input on how much time on a pour one full turn of the adjustment knob makes?

When I was evaluating the Cimbali Max, I considered a half turn as a small adjustment (a few seconds of pour time, if that).

[HB]

I understand the Max is louder than a Mini...is it way louder than an SJ? Or just a bit louder. I do like to use my grinder after the kiddoes are in bed.

The Cimbali has a more throaty sound and seems louder to me, but I would not say it's way louder except when run empty.

...will the quality/consistency of the grind be a significant enough improvement to justify selling my SJ and purchasing the Hybrid?

I had the Max for a few months and I own the Super Jolly, but unfortunately not at the same time. My gut reaction is there isn't a significant difference, though I would not surprise me if the Max edged out the Super Jolly on clump-free grounds and consistent pours, especially if your technique isn't spot on.

[Charm]

Hey I just got my Max Hybrid, and I am scratching my head on page 11 of the manual.

It says we MUST ground this grinder to a Equalizing Connection.

The manual claims this step is absolutely necessary.

I will call the techs at Chris's tommorow, just wondering if anyone had any thoughts.

I searched the forum and found no mention of this on any other grinder.

[cafeIKE]

Not applicable in the US on 110v

[SteveN]

First impressions?

I love this thing. My Expobar Pulser now looks kinda wimpy sitting next to it. I don't find it to be any louder then the Rocky a Compak K3 that I had. I also like the industrial built for a purpose look.

First things first, I set it up and decided to go the route of dumping a bunch of beans into the hopper. With my Rocky I would always grind per dose. After reading how the Max wants weight on the bean column I felt I would give it a shot and learn to grind by time. It took all of 2 shots to have it dialed in and pouring perfectly. The worm gear and knob for adjusting the grind is the way to go. Very simple and repeatable. Off to bed....

This morning came the ultimate test. My wife came in from her morning run and I made her her daily Americano. She had one sip and declared it the best I have ever made. After drinking one myself, I agree. Then I had another. Better then the first. At my grind setting, I grind for 8-9 seconds, dose, level, lock and load. Perfect, syrupy, even extraction. Easy as can be with no drama. I no longer need to work to overcome issues with the grind to make good coffee.

It's a winner.

-Steve

[gbovino]

Can anyone share their dosing/distribution technique for this grinder? I'm basically just grinding and then dosing right into the PF (naked). Level off (N-S-E-W) with the edge of my scooper *I still see a few minor clumps* and tamp per usual. The pours aren't that great looking. Beans are Blackcat (roasted on the 5/16).

[Marshall]

Can anyone share their dosing/distribution technique?

Nothing special is required. Try making your grind a little finer.

[SteveN]

I answered your question on CG. For the sake of simplicity, lets move it here for good.

I do nothing special. That is one thing I love so far.

Are you filling or partially filling the hopper or only grinding per dose?

-Steve

[zin1953]

I just don't see the "Beat the Robur" test as a good way of comparing grinders (other than the obvious comparison to the Robur). Perhaps Jim will weigh in with a dissenting opinion. For now, I'll merely point out that, in addition to the very small sample size, the CMH and the SJ tests were two weeks apart. That's fine if you're comparing them to the Robur, but unacceptable if you're trying to compare them to one another.

I'm not even sure "Can it beat the Robur?" is a good way of determining if ________ can beat a Robur, given the small sample size, the limited testing, tasters, etc., etc. It's clearly not meant to compare X-to-Y, but rather everything to the Robur . . .

I think that's what I said:

Clearly none of this means very much . . . it's too small of a sample to be anything close to definitive.

Then again, in this very limited atmosphere of high-priced, esoteric machinery, many people look to the TGP and elsewhere in an attempt to glean some useful tidbits of information. It's not like Consumer Reports crashes Mazzers and Macaps by dropping them repeatedly off a kitchen counter and issues safety ratings . . . Rob was asking for a comparison, and I was quite upfront in saying I have no direct experience using an SJ. But he could look to the "Beat the Robur" thread, if he wanted to.

Just because (e.g.) the SF Giants have a winning record this season against the St. Louis Cardinals (4-3), doesn't mean anyone seriously thinks they're the better team -- nor does it predict how the Cards will do against Houston, even though the Giants are 1-3 against the Astros. (After all, the Cards are a game ahead of the Astros in the standings.) On any given day, blah . . . blah . . . blah . . .

One can take an electron microscope and measure fines. One can measure clumping (though I suspect that would vary with humidity), but what it all boils down to is taste, and that is a subjective -- not a scientific -- standard. But hey, if someone wants to give me a Super Jolly, I wouldn't say no. But I'm quite happy with my CMH, and -- for me -- that's all that counts.

Cheers,
Jason

[gbovino]

I put enough beans just to clear the throat paddle (so probably twice the amount of beans I would need). I grind a bit to flush the channel between the hopper and doser, sweep and dump out those grinds. Then I proceed to grind the remainder. I then place the PF under the doser and try to have everything fall dead center.

If it's OK, can I keep the thread on CG? I wanted to show some comparative vids of both grinders. I posted on this thread to see what other users were doing with their Max Hybrids.

Looks like everyone is just grinding, dosing & tamping so far.

Cheers!

[cafeIKE]

For the past few weeks, I've been enjoying West Coast Roasting Espresso Torro in the Max Hybrid and feel I have a handle on getting the most out of it.


Espresso Torro after about 20 seconds. YUM!

It's always instructive to revisit one's prejudices, so I loaded up the Macap MC4 with some Torro and dialed it in to produce a shot as close as "Damn it!" is to swearing in terms of volume and time.

When I first got the MC4, it was a revelation in terms of flavor clarity. Going back to it after several months is a revelation in favor of the Max Hybrid. The profile of the Max Hybrid is expansive, with flavors detected all over the tongue. By comparison, the profile of the MC4, is narrower and flatter. This was my initial reaction 4 months ago with a very different coffee and I'm happy to report it's still true.

[Beezer]

I received my Max a few days ago, and so far I haven't been too impressed with the grind quality. I'm getting lots of big clumps, far more than I got with my old Macap M4. When I dose, distribute and tamp in my usual fashion, I get some obvious channeling with the naked PF. The resulting shot seems to be a bit thin and sour. Using WDT solves the channeling problems and improves the shot, but I'd rather not have to do the WDT dance. In fact, the main reason I got the Max was to eliminate the WDT from my routine.

Here's a shot of the ground coffee before distributing or tamping. The coffee is fresh roasted Barefoot Sweetness espresso blend.



And here's a video of the resulting pour. Sorry it's a bit dark. You can see how the pour favors the front of the PF.



Any suggestions?

[Marshall]

I received my Max a few days ago, and so far I haven't been too impressed with the grind quality. I'm getting lots of big clumps, far more than I got with my old Macap M4.

Do you rapidly flick the dosing lever while it grinds to break up clumps?

[Beezer]

Yes, I've been thwacking away like a madman. I still get big clumps. I just finished temporarily attaching some thin wire across the chute exit and the bottom of the doser exit to see if I can break the clumps as they leave the grinder. I guess I'll find out tomorrow if that makes any difference.

[IMAWriter]

Do you rapidly flick the dosing lever while it grinds to break up clumps?

Marshall(and our OP)
I'm just about to pull the trigger on the CMH, but I'm just wondering about something---
My style, due to the fact I'm dosing into a 49mm basket is to thwack thwack AFTER the grinding process is complete (on my SJ) The reason is obviously that it's a bit harder to hit the target while holding the PF steady and thwacking. I'd need 3 hands to get the dosing lever, hold the PF then shut the grinder off without wasting a lot of coffee (though I know coffee waste is a part of the process!)
Will I be looking at clumpy grounds if I were to proceed in my fashion?
I realize the pro barista's dose while the grinder is doing it's thing. I just never got into that groove. Maybe I should? From what I've read, the CMH is supposed to produce a less clumpy grind, and have a lot less of the "left leaning" Mazzer dosing.

[Cafesp]

Yes, I've been thwacking away like a madman. I still get big clumps..

It depends on coffee ( age, type,..) and humidity of the day!
Sometimes "Sh. happens!" (Just watch Forest Gum again!), I could say No Clumping issue for CMH and I do compare it to my VLM3!
With time you will appreciate the CMH more!

Cafesp