Why is there little FTO, Bird-Friendly, etc. greens to buy?

[tommy99]

While I know Fair Trade and other sustainable initiatives aren't a perfect system, I feel it's a step in the right direction and would like to do my part.

I have had some great FTO coffees but have noticed buying them green doesn't offer a huge selection. Even places like Sweet Maria's offers less than a handful from their vast selection.

Are there any retailers that can be recommended, first for a quality product, and secondly, for a good selection?

[Ken Fox]

While I know Fair Trade and other sustainable initiatives aren't a perfect system, I feel it's a step in the right direction and would like to do my part.

I have had some great FTO coffees but have noticed buying them green doesn't offer a huge selection. Even places like Sweet Maria's offers less than a handful from their vast selection.

Are there any retailers that can be recommended, first for a quality product, and secondly, for a good selection?

You could try contacting Ethical Bean in Vancouver, a fairly large roaster who only roasts this sort of coffee. They are not in the green coffee business but perhaps they could help you out with sourcing or would consider selling greens.

ken

[Kaffee Bitte]

Here is another link that I have had good luck with. They only sell FT/O's many of which are shade grown and or bird friendly and often even Rainforest alliance certified. I buy most of my FT/O's from them since sourcing them from other places can be hit and miss.

http://www.breworganic.com/Coffee/coffee.htm

They have twenty-seven coffees to offer at this moment from many different origins. This is a pretty fair amount for any specialized site and is around their normal amount.

[malachi]

It's hard.
The way free trade works, getting small amounts of super high quality coffee (Sweet Marias model) is very hard. You can get larger amounts of high quality coffee or you can get medium amounts of mediocre coffee.

And keep in mind that a large amount of the best coffees in the world are simply not certified as organic or free trade but in fact qualify at an intent level (amount paid to the farmer per pound, usage of chemical fertilizers and herbicides etc).


Then again... I think that the current systems around certification are total bulls**t so I'm probably the wrong person to ask.

[Ken Fox]

Then again... I think that the current systems around certification are total bulls**t so I'm probably the wrong person to ask.

If one believes in the benefits of buying products labeled as being "organic," for example, it is one thing to buy tomatoes from California so labeled, and quite another to buy coffee beans produced in some third world country bearing that label.

Although I'm skeptical on the benefits of any of this stuff (and for coffee it becomes even harder to justify since just about any substance used in growing the coffee will burn off at roasting temps), one can have a pretty high level of confidence about the California tomatoes, but little about the coffee. How one could really go through all the steps in the production and shipping of the coffee from a 3rd world country and actually believe that the various rules were followed (or prove it) is beyond me.

But there is a market for this stuff, and attempts to point out the obvious to the true believers (in my experience) has been a waste of time.

ken

[farmroast]

Most coffee grown in high elevations is organic because the pest problems are reduced due to the elevation. Also commercial fertilizers are not often trucked up to these remote areas. You need to worry about coffees that are mass produced on the flatlands. Tom at SM is his own form of FT by direct buying or group buying, COE etc. and that saves the farmer certification fee's, org. costs etc.

[cannonfodder]

Not only do the farmers need to be certified, but your vendor also must be certified. A non certified vendor can not sell organic coffees as organic. The moment they drop off the truck, they are no longer certified organic. I have to read up on it more.

[wildlyesoteric]

My local roaster sells only FTO coffees, with maybe a couple exceptions. Probably 10-12 FTO coffees.

[barry]

Not only do the farmers need to be certified, but your vender also must be certified. A non certified vender can not sell organic coffees as organic. The moment they drop off the truck, they are no longer certified organic. I have to read up on it more.

If the truck line doesn't follow NOP rules, then the coffee ceases to be organic when it is loaded at the certified warehouse.


And oh fun and excitement, the new roaster in town is selling FTO coffee and is neither registered FT nor certified O. It's frustrating for both those who've gone through the headache of certification and those who haven't but have the coffee and follow the rules by not selling it as such.

[cannonfodder]

His coffee tastes like beef stew with old tire bouillabaisse. I don't think he will be around long enough to worry about unless he as a mattress full of cash.

I read a book, so I can roast coffee now.

[Marshall]

If one believes in the benefits of buying products labeled as being "organic," for example, it is one thing to buy tomatoes from California so labeled, and quite another to buy coffee beans produced in some third world country bearing that label.

Although I'm skeptical on the benefits of any of this stuff (and for coffee it becomes even harder to justify since just about any substance used in growing the coffee will burn off at roasting temps), one can have a pretty high level of confidence about the California tomatoes, but little about the coffee.

Some of the motivation for buying organic food is removing a source of toxins from the people who pick and process the raw beans.

How one could really go through all the steps in the production and shipping of the coffee from a 3rd world country and actually believe that the various rules were followed (or prove it) is beyond me.

But there is a market for this stuff, and attempts to point out the obvious to the true believers (in my experience) has been a waste of time.

A periodic sampling of representative farms from each coop is used. Some cheating was discovered in the past year in a couple of locations (not coffee), which led to a huge debate at the USDA on requiring inspections at every farm, which would be prohibitively expensive. The issue is still not entirely resolved.

[Martin]

Although I'm skeptical on the benefits of any of this stuff . . . <<<snip>>> How one could really go through all the steps in the production and shipping of the coffee from a 3rd world country and actually believe that the various rules were followed (or prove it) is beyond me.
ken

Much depends on what we are trying to demonstrate and the standards of evidence we require.

Example: I cannot prove that one particular batch of organic greens that I buy contributes to the values I hold for labor, social justice, environment, health, and so forth. I can't be certain that the beans are not doused with nasty chemicals.

On the other hand, on average it is more likely that my purchase of "organic" will more closely match those values than if I paid no attention to the label. Depends on how you roast and blend your empiricism, reductionism, politics, and ideology. There's no accounting for taste.