Why does it seem that pro-roasts last longer than home? - Page 2

[oofnik]

I don't know, but I've noticed an improvement in my roasts (drum roaster) if I preheat everything up to 250-300 F before putting the beans in. I think it might be the thermal inertia of the system giving the beans a good initial oomph or something, and that apparently rounds out some flavors somehow? It tastes good, so I'll keep doing it.

[javanut]

I have not noticed that. I am obsessed with good coffee and have had beans from all over, roasted and unroasted. I roast at home and get coffee from local roasters once in a while and also online sources. beans only remain fresh for so long...it's science. Expose them to air and the clock starts ticking regardless of whether or not you seal them.

[oofnik]

I've always thought so, and you can make reusable ones.

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/one...lve-jars-home-made

Wow! I made a few of these for my last two roasts. They've been sitting for three days and I just pulled the first shot of SM Puro Scuro. What a difference! It seems that the flavor develops much more evenly compared to just sealing the beans in the jars. Even the aroma seems much sweeter and mellower versus the sharper, more pungent smells I was getting before. Awesome.

[DaveC]

Wow! I made a few of these for my last two roasts. They've been sitting for three days and I just pulled the first shot of SM Puro Scuro. What a difference! It seems that the flavor develops much more evenly compared to just sealing the beans in the jars. Even the aroma seems much sweeter and mellower versus the sharper, more pungent smells I was getting before. Awesome.

Yes, I have found it is far superior to a simple sealed jar, I can't be definitely sure, but I think the flushing out of oxygen is a major factor as mentioned in the Wiki. I wash the main body of the containers, but only give the lids a wipe with a damp cloth avoiding the valve of course.

The other great thing is how good your cupboard (containing the jars) smells when you open the door

[Kaffee Bitte]

I don't know, have not seen or used them. Do you have a web URL?

http://www.bodumusa.com/shop/grou...es.asp?MD=1&GID=12

[Trisha]

My observations are the opposite: what I roast lasts well through the 5 day cutoff for espresso!

Coffees roasted at low elevations would probably survive better if I immediately put them in the chest freezer (best guess is rapid outgassing). . .



The lack of oxygen up here affects everything!

[Niko]

One thing I noticed is that the outgassing is slowed down when I immediately put my roasts in a vacuum container, the ones that have a pump to suck the air out. I used to put the beans in a valved bag for a couple of days until they're rested enough to start drinking and then I discovered the airtight jars take longer. Yes, the gasses get trapped in the jar but I do open them several times a day for the first 2-3 days. The lid usually gets blown off by the outgassing in the first 6-12 hours anyway.

...oh yeah, back to the OP, my roasts last just as long (if not longer) than commercial roasts. I don't have an answer for this but maybe the airtight jars have something to do with it.

[matadero210]

Has anyone tried CO2 purging? As a home-beer-brewer, I have a tank of CO2 sitting in the kitchen. I would assume from all the foregoing that even blowing CO2 onto the beans just before closing the jar would have an effect. Maybe one could install a gas-inlet poppet on a jar .....

raj

[Richard]

Maybe one could install a gas-inlet poppet on a jar .....

And next you will be submitting a patent claim that teaches carbonated espresso?

[DaveC]

Has anyone tried CO2 purging? As a home-beer-brewer, I have a tank of CO2 sitting in the kitchen. I would assume from all the foregoing that even blowing CO2 onto the beans just before closing the jar would have an effect. Maybe one could install a gas-inlet poppet on a jar .....

raj

I have considered it, but had no small controllable source of compressed CO2. If I was to do it, it would be via a semi rigid tube, pushed down into the beans to the bottom of the container. Pass gas through for a few seconds, then withdraw tube and close lid.....but then I get lots of crazy ideas.

[matadero210]

And next you will be submitting a patent claim that teaches carbonated espresso?

Actually, Richard, next would be a tennis-ball-pump adapted to storing beans under CO2 pressure. That way, instant crema no matter how you brew.

r

[AndyS]

FWIW, Carl Staub from Agtron suggested that many home roasters cool down their roasts too quickly at the end. He said the stresses produced by this procedure result in "microcracks" in the beans' surface. Then oxygen gets in more easily and decreases the usable life of the beans.

IIRC, Carl said the 2-3 minute cooldown common in commercial roasting was long enough to avoid the problem.

[jbeecham]

I usually store my roasted beans in vacuumed container. I let the beans rest for one or two days after roasting (depending on the type of bean) and then I freeze them in the vacuumed container. I have noticed that when I thaw the beans, the outgassing continues.- even after several weeks. I hope this means the beans are still fresh from being stored this way.

The freezer I use is the old type that requires defrosting every few months, not the frost free kind. That is important since the frost free type is not always at its coldest temperature.

jerry

[Stuggi]

Wonder what would happen if one where to take a ordinary glass jar with a metal lid with proper seal and install a quick-fitting with a backflow valve and a one way valve, and then purge the jar with argon before storing it?

[IMAWriter]

ever notice that?
buy preroasted beans, and they seem to have a good lifecycle.

home roasted, on the other hand, a couple of weeks, max.

do pro-roasters extend the roasts which could help lengthen lifespan?

another far stretch, buy lavazza. ok, not ideal, but still a great tasting bean, and not anywhere as flat as a homeroasted bean would taste, especially after 2-3 months!

You're comparing a can of Lavazza to a good home roast?///ugh...
Forgive me here, but you must not drink much coffee to have 2 week old home roast sitting around
...admittedly, we drink a bunch of coffee around here, but I roast a full # in my Behmor (yield after roasting about 13.6 oz)...
It's gone in 7 days , max...and that's with a 24 hour rest. For non espresso brewed coffee, 2 weeks, if kept air tight in a 1 way valved bag should be no problem, though. On rare occasion, I've had both Pro roasted and home roasted versions of the same varietal, and after 10 days noticed no appreiciable difference in degradation.
Most espresso's lose much of their ability to produce mountains of crema after 10 days, but (at least to me) often have more complex flavors. Just goes to show how we all taste things differently!

[IMAWriter]

FWIW, Carl Staub from Agtron suggested that many home roasters cool down their roasts too quickly at the end. He said the stresses produced by this procedure result in "microcracks" in the beans' surface. Then oxygen gets in more easily and decreases the usable life of the beans.

IIRC, Carl said the 2-3 minute cool down common in commercial roasting was long enough to avoid the problem.

Andy...interesting you/Carl said the above...I've posted that since roasting coffee with a Behmor 1600 (I was a beta tester, so I've had 8 months with it) I've noticed that my coffee doess seem "fresher" a bit longer....when I've had some at 10 days after roast date (rare...lol) when brewed in an Aerobie, there is still a serious amount of blooming. There is a protracted cooling period on the Behmor...I compensate buy stopping my roast a touch earlier, and let it coast that extra bit during the first minute of cool down (ala a BBQ roaster)
I think Carl may have the answer...I used to do 1 minute cooldowns, when roasting with my StirCrazy/CO combo...spritzing, etc.

[AndyS]

I think Carl may have the answer...I used to do 1 minute cooldowns, when roasting with my StirCrazy/CO combo...spritzing, etc.

Hi Rob:

This sounds like a great project for Ken and Jim!

They can roast a bunch of batches and cool some in 1 min and some in 3 min. Wait a couple weeks and see if there's a difference in freshness.

It's great giving people homework. I shoulda been a teacher!

I'd even suggest that Ken use his own roaster rather than a Behmor.

[IMAWriter]

Hi Rob:

This sounds like a great project for Ken and Jim!

They can roast a bunch of batches and cool some in 1 min and some in 3 min. Wait a couple weeks and see if there's a difference in freshness.

It's great giving people homework. I shoulda been a teacher!

I'd even suggest that Ken use his own roaster rather than a Behmor.

Yes his own roaster would be a true test, of course...however, if he's using a fluid bed roaster (I didn't catch which roaster he had) and he's purchasing roasted that's been drum roasted.....?
I remember how my popper roasts were drinkable early, and faded by the 6th or 7th day...they would oil up fast, even if I was able to stop them before 2nd...which was pretty hard to do!

[AndyS]

Yes his own roaster would be a true test, of course...however, if he's using a fluid bed roaster (I didn't catch which roaster he had) and he's purchasing roasted that's been drum roasted.....?

Hi Rob:

Ken uses a heavily modified pro sample roaster.

My suggestion was not that he compare his own roast to something he purchased. Instead he should split his own roasted coffee batches in half as soon as the roast is over, cooling half in 1 minute and the other half in 3 minutes. Then compare the coffees over time.

Obviously, many home roasters can try this, and perhaps they will. Of course Ken and Jim do a particularly good job of blind tasting and data analysis.

Ken, if you're lurking out there, feel free to send me an email. And what are you doing with all your newfound free time?

[Cafesp]

...This sounds like a great project for Ken and Jim!

...They can roast a bunch of batches and cool some in 1 min and some in 3 min. Wait a couple weeks and see if there's a difference in freshness...

Hope we all have the answer for it