Which roaster should I get - Behmor or Gene Cafe'?

[chlyonsiv]

My popcorn popper died this weekend, so I've decided to upgrade to something that allows me to control the roast a little better. I'm torn between the Behmor and the Gene Cafe', and was hoping that those of you with experience with the two could offer some insight...

[billm3]

I have a Gene, no experience with a Behmor. I followed the same route you are, thrift-store poppers for three years and then moved to the Gene.

Total roasting time in the Gene is about 16-20 minutes depending on ambient temp. I roast to the very first snaps of second crack using the full amount of beans (3 of the supplied scoops - about 300g) then start the cool cycle. The cool-down is the major weak point of the Gene (next paragraph). I don't have any "profile" other than full heat. I just vary the roast time or the amount of green beans if I want darker/lighter etc. The Gene has a max temp of 482 deg F, which is supposedly measured at the exhaust, so the drum temp should be higher than that. Time to reach full temp is about 5 minutes. I get very even roasts and everything tastes good to me.

The cooling is the weak point because it takes about 10 min to cool 300g (green weight) to 140 deg F, which is where the Gene shuts off. It is easy to get used to, but some are put-off by it according to their posts on the subject. With a popper, I would roast a little into second crack, so to get the same results with the Gene, I start the cooling earlier and it coasts into second crack. The drum cools down enough in about 20 seconds so that 2nd crack stops, then the rest of the cool down takes 8-10 minutes.

I have had the Gene for about a year with no reliability issues. I have a full (long) review at CG. There's lots of reviews for both the Gene and Behmor too. Apologies if that's a breach of forum decorum.

Bill

[drdna]

If you can tolerate or perhaps even enjoy the baked flavor associated with air roasting your coffee, get the Gene Cafe roaster. If you want more roasted flavors that you get with a traditional professional roaster, get the Behmor or the Hot Top.
Adrian

[miKe mcKoffee]

If you can tolerate or perhaps even enjoy the baked flavor associated with air roasting your coffee

Bit of an off the mark generalization. A more typical air roast generalization might be clean roast (compared to old style drum roasters with poor air flow) that accentuates brightness and less body. A too long air roast will taste baked sure, same for any other roast method.

That said 9 years home roasting most air roasts I've experienced pushing 20min tend to be baked. OTOH air roasts in the 10 to 13min range tend to have very good balance in the cup.

A profile controllable air roaster is capable of a better result than either the Gene Cafe or Behmor IMO.

That said generally speaking my CCR HotTop roasts beat my dual variable boosted voltage controlled split wired Rosto roasts and my USRC 3k roasts beat my CCR HotTop roasts.

Between the Gene Cafe & the Behmor 1600 and their associated quirks I'd take a Behmor.

[Randy G.]

My popcorn popper died this weekend, so I've decided to upgrade to something that allows me to control the roast a little better. I'm torn between the Behmor and the Gene Cafe', and was hoping that those of you with experience with the two could offer some insight...

Something to consider with both: neither of these roasters has anything approaching efficient or fast cooling of the beans at the end of the roast, so you need to do a bit of prediction as to when the roast, and/or supply your own external, homemade cooling device... and a pair of heat-resistant gloves! I have not used the Bemor, but did review the Genecafe and found it quite interesting (lots of internal pics on my website in the review). If you roast visually then I would say that the Gene is a good choice between those two. The plus of the Behmor is greater capacity and no glass parts.

[chlyonsiv]

Thanks for all the feedback. I had read that the Behmor was a little difficult to get to dark roasts, but that there were some work-arounds. At 60% of the cost of the Gene Cafe, it might be the safer "starter" roaster from a cost standpoint. I'm also very curious about the difference in drum roasting vs. air or fluid-bed roasting. As someone pointed out, the drum roasting gives more body, which is my preference. Eventually, I would like to buy a good commercial sample roaster, but that is a different post for a different time.

What I'm most excited about in using something other than the popper is being able to control the roasts a little better. I've tended to gravitate toward darker roasts, but plan on doing a cupping on the same beans, just different roast levels to really get a sense of how the "experience" of the coffee is impacted by the roast. Planning on using a Puerto Rice Yauco Selecto AA for this, unless someone has another suggestion.

[Randy G.]

I'm also very curious about the difference in drum roasting vs. air or fluid-bed roasting.

The difference depends on the control that the specific roasters present to the user. Both methods are capable of roasting excellent coffee. The problem is that the fluid bed roasters as supplied commercially for home use tend to give little control over the roast and roast too fast, not giving the coffee time to develop.

What I'm most excited about in using something other than the popper is being able to control the roasts a little better.

Currently, the best home roasting appliance in terms of user control is the Hottop KN-8828B, but if the Gene is too expensive for your budget, this one is out of the question. The Gene's temperature control is quite good. Check my reviewof it as there is a graph specifically addressing ts control ability.

I've tended to gravitate toward darker roasts, but plan on doing a cupping on the same beans, just different roast levels to really get a sense of how the "experience" of the coffee is impacted by the roast.

Roast level is also dictated by method of brewing and the beans you are roasting. A roast that might be delicious as drip could very well be disgusting as an espresso. Additionally, the level of roast degree is just one factor. The level is the destination, there are many roads that lead there.

[chlyonsiv]

Roast level is also dictated by method of brewing and the beans you are roasting. A roast that might be delicious as drip could very well be disgusting as an espresso. Additionally, the level of roast degree is just one factor. The level is the destination, there are many roads that lead there.

It sounds like I will need to try the different roasts, each in a different brew method. This could take years! That may not be a bad thing. Time is going to pass either way, might as well enjoy a lot of cups of coffee along the way.

Currently, the best home roasting appliance in terms of user control is the Hottop KN-8828B, but if the Gene is too expensive for your budget, this one is out of the question.

It isn't so much the cost of one item; it is the cumulative cost of a lot of stuff, over a very short period of time. 6 months ago, I drank Starbucks coffee at home in my drip-brew Krups. Then, I have a friend introduce me to home roasting, and suddenly, I have 50 lbs of green coffee, a new roaster purchase, and a list of espresso machines and grinders to choose from to outfit my kitchen, all purchases that I absolutely need in pursuit of my perfect cup of coffee. "Need" here is probably the same type of need that my wife has for shoes, so I have to convince her that it is all a great investment of time and money. I'm trying to ease into this without too much shock to the system. I tell myself that I can upgrade "down the road." How far down the road is being hotly debated between my wife and me!

[Randy G.]

It isn't so much the cost of one item; it is the cumulative cost of a lot of stuff, over a very short period of time....

Well if we are going to get into an espresso equipment pee-pee competition...

You can read my website for the details, but about 8 years ago I began shopping. Started out thinking that about $110 is enough for an espresso machine, and I can use the Cuisinart grinder I already have. After a week or two of shopping, shortly thereafter my $800 order arrived with the Silvia, Rocky, and Hearthware Precision coffee roaster.

My coffee website is exactly one week shy of celebrating 8 years of online activity. I now have an espresso machine and grinder that together are worth more now than I paid for my (used) car which I have been driving for about three years (and really enjoy.. 27.5 actual mpg highway at 80mph! YMMV). I own 8 coffee roasters (two of which are used regularly). I converted a built-in gun cabinet in our home to what my wife refers to as "The Coffee Museum," with overhead lighting and glass shelves.

So there's a moral to all this, and I think that it is, "It's too late for me. Run. Run like the wind. RUN AWAY, NOW, before it's too late."

Are you still here? if so, check out the reviews on my website- I cover the iRoast2, the Genecafe, and the Hottop. it might give you a little more insight into the process as well as help you decide which best suits your needs. Also check the discussions and reviews here and the user reviews on coffeegeek.com.

[CoffeeOwl]

My coffee website is exactly one week shy of celebrating 8 years of online activity.

ALL BEST WISHES RANDY!!! and big thanks...

Run. Run like the wind. RUN AWAY, NOW, before it's too late.

C'mon! Just after first cup, it's already far too late. And good - make a cup for your wife and give her a present and then go coffee-shopping together!

[RAS]

Okay, got to at least mention another roaster option - which I've been using for four of the five years I've been roasting... a heat-gun. I started with a FreshRoast and have dabbled with a convection oven, but nothing compares to my heat-gun method. I am keenly aware of a roast's progress and can easily speed it up or slow it down. With the method I've developed, my roasts (with one-pound of greens) hit first crack between 7:30 - 9:00, and if I want to go into second, that typically starts around 11:00 - 13:00 (depending on the profile I'm shooting for). Best thing is that I've been using the same heat-gun for four years, and it's still going strong (it's the Milwaukee gun you can get for about $50-60 from Lowes). OK, one more thing that's better than that - the roasts are consistently excellent.

If you're dead-set against heat-gunning, I certainly understand, but I would certainly advise anyone interested in roasting to consider it... especially if you like to be really-involved in the process.

[chlyonsiv]

If you're dead-set against heat-gunning, I certainly understand, but I would certainly advise anyone interested in roasting to consider it... especially if you like to be really-involved in the process.

Actually, I'm curious about it -- the same guy who introduced me to home roasting apparently uses a heat gun for some of his roasts. I haven't tried it. What do you use to hold the beans? My friend uses an old bread machine that he has modified, which is why I haven't looked too hard at it -- I don't have a spare bread machine sitting around. Where can I find out more about it?

[farmroast]

Actually, I'm curious about it -- the same guy who introduced me to home roasting apparently uses a heat gun for some of his roasts. I haven't tried it. What do you use to hold the beans? My friend uses an old bread machine that he has modified, which is why I haven't looked too hard at it -- I don't have a spare bread machine sitting around. Where can I find out more about it?

Heat gun/bread machine roasting is huge in Australia. They are nicknamed Corretto roasters after a coffee snob forum member. Bread machines can be found at thrift shops real cheap.
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?board=roasters
farm

[RAS]

My heat-gun set-up is beautiful in its simplicity - and that's part of the reason I love it. I hold my beans in a mesh strainer that I then set inside a stainless steel bowl. The strainer sits pretty snug inside the bowl. Idea here is that air is allowed to move around the strainer better, and mimic more of a fluid air bed. The set-up also helps with chaff control. I'll be roasting this weekend and will take some pictures of my set-up.

One reason this method works for me is that the weather here in Southern California is never "bad" and I can roast outside year-round. Where I roast, chaff on the ground is not a concern, and smokier roasts don't cause any problems.

Again, the primary reason I continue to roast this way is the complete control I have, and the view I've got of the beans as they roast. I see everything - and can control everything. Also, as I said before, I'm still using the gun I bought four years ago. And it gets used at least once a week. Simple and reliable really appeals to me... My wife says that's because I'm simple. I think that's a compliment.

[RAS]

Sorry that I failed to add that I don't use a bread machine to agitate the beans. A simple stirring implement works fine for me. I've developed a method where I stir with my left hand with a varying radius pattern to make sure all beans get agitated, while I hold the heat-gun in my right hand, also moving it in a circular pattern, though out of phase. Both hands move clockwise, and the stiring and "gunning" circles make a bit of a figure-eight. May sound complex, but it's not.

[RAS]

A few day delay (lots going on), but finally some pictures of my trusty roasting rig. As I've already said, this simple way to go should be considered by anyone who really enjoys the process of anything, not just the finished result. Heat-gun roasting does take some practice, but once you've got a good method, it produces excellent results. I have been so happy with the roasts that I'm getting that I don't see trying another roasting method for a very long time - if ever.
First picture is of all the gear I use, all packed away (all fits nicely):

Next is a close up of the strainer sitting inside my stainless steel bowl, and my stirring utensil (half of a set of tongs):

Next is my cooling rig - very effective. It's a paint bucket with the bottom cut off. Fits perfectly inside the lip of the upturned Honeywell fan, which is powerfull enough to blow beans out of the cooling strainer (though when there's a pound in there, all beans stay put). Cools a pound in about 2 minutes.
Finally, a roasted pound. Ethiopian Idido Misty Valley - 1/3 roasted to City+, 2/3 roasted to FC... Yes, a blend like this is possible in the same roast, but that's a different post.

[chlyonsiv]

Pretty impressive rig!

Sometimes, I feel like half the fun of home roasting is getting to build all the cool things we use! The cooling unit, you use a regular "vornado" type fan and a paint bucket?

[RAS]

Yeah, "inventing" things has been a big part of the fun. I'm a bit of a DIY'er, so I enjoy it. And, yes, it's a Honeywell brand "Vornado"-style fan. I bought the white paint bucket from Lowe's, but I'm sure you can get them from any paint-supplier. I cut out the bottom with a Dremel tool, and cut down the sides a bit so that my mesh-strainer fit perfectly inside of it. It really does work great - it is powerful and cools beans quickly, but it also does a great job of blowing any remaining chaff out. Finally, when I'm finished roasting, I take the bucket part out and use the fan to blow away any chaff that scatters around the area I roast... You know, into the neighbor's yard .

[Boldjava]

I have them both and have used the Gene going on two plus years and the Behmor for the past year. I would encourage you to consider the Gene over the Behmor.

Behmor - Easy plug and play. Most I can get out of it is 13 oz. Sixteen oz batches never get past a 'city' roast for me and I enjoy 'full city.' Little smoke but plenty of roasting aroma that lingers, even roasting under externally vented stove with window open. Difficult to 'sense' the roast as visibility is really obscured. Excellent value.

Gene Cafe - More visible/conscious approach to roasting as the beans can be seen as the roast develops. Personally makes it more enjoyable for me. Harder to hear the cracks than Behmor but I take meticulous notes and time cracks/distance between cracks. Gene delivers, time after time, when I pay attention to temps/times. Putz-ey, but once you learn your profiles (I have 3 favorites, mainly base on growing elevation), you can really dial a bean in. I use the XL chaff collector, venting it via an aluminum tube out the window. Use a small 3M window fan to also pull odor and smoke. Minimal accumulation and no smoke alarms triggered. Note: I pull all my beans at edge of 2nd crack, using the "E" stop, cooling with a shop vac arrangement.

Taste? Gene, hands down. I noticed that the Behmor "underdevelops" (if there is such a word) a bean's taste and characteristics. First noticed it with two El Salvador cups of excellence, one a pacamara. Then, I took 5 Bolivians from the National jury (Invalsa's beans) and cup them, side by side out of the Behmor and the Gene. The Gene delivered a better roast/flavor/mouthfeel on each of the five.

Note: I have voltage issues so I use a 20W variac with both the Gene and the Behmor. It holds both machines right at 120. I do about 4-5 lbs per week and the Gene keeps on tumbling.

Just my experience and opinion. If I had to do it over again, I would buy the Gene in a second. Good luck on your purchase. Finally, never leave the room while roasting and have a fire extinguisher within reach.

B|Java

[Boldjava]

The Gene Cafe Roaster is on sale this week at Storehouse Coffee. I trust publishing the link is OK. If not, mod pls pull it. Thanks.

http://www.storehousecoffee.com/homeroast.html

B|Java