Which Pavoni is better - older or new?

[adywells]

Hi
Is there any differences between older Pavoni's and new ones? Which is better?
I'm still waiting to find a Cremina but in the mean time I am thinking of buying a Pavoni.
Thanks for your time.
Ady

[dane1234]

Ady:

For pics showing the some of the differences between older La Pavoni PC16s and newer versions, see http://community.webshots.com/album/501856419ynPQMP. The comparison pictures are about halfway through the album.

Regards,

[bill]

In my opinion that is a difficult question to answer; i.e., it depends to a large extent on your personal preferences. My experience was with an older model called the Ambassador. It was physically the same size as the Professional, but came without a pressure gauge (easily added) and it had a two-position switch to control the heater. Low temperature for brewing and high temperature for steaming. I liked it because I felt I was in complete control.
Having said that I now use a Riviera which uses a pressurestat to control the pressure/temperature. This is the same system as newer Pavoni models use. I really like it, too. Less control, but one less thing to worry about when trying to get consistent results.
From what I've read in these threads it appears Pavoni is now using a cheaper pressurestat that is more difficult to adjust, and they no longer use a brass piston as mine did but have replaced it with (I think?) a plastic one. Also, to make it even harder to answer your question, Pavoni is now using a larger group size which should be an advantage.
Anyway, that's my two cents for what it's worth.

[cannonfodder]

Old 49mm portafilter
New 51mm portafilter

More coffee in basket, the larger group also overheats slower. The new version also has a polymer sleeve in the group to help retard the overheat issue, but it still overheats. You get one more shot out of the new based on what I have heard. Important note, I have never owned the old model (pre millennium, the new version is referred to as the millennium edition) so my statements are from what I learned when researching them.

The Millennium edition uses a single power switch; the boiler is controlled by a small pressurestat in the base. The old version has two heat switches. One for brew temp, the other increases the temp for steaming. If the old version is left on it will heat until the pressure relief valve opens. If you accidentally leave it on, it will boil the boiler dry and blow the heating element. The new version will get to hot to brew with, but the Pstat keeps overpressure and heat in check. I have left my new style machine on for hours with no problems (other than it getting to hot to use) and I did that intentionally. There is also a thermal breaker in the base so if it does get to hot, it pops and shuts down the machine. Remove the base, push the breaker and you are back in business.

The new version uses a polly piston as Bill suggests. One positive point, coffee residue sticks to brass like glue, the polly piston stays cleaner longer.

I have heard of chrome peeling off of the old version. I personally think the new versions finish is better than the old, but I have never seen a new old style machine.

Parts for both are readily available, and probably will be for decades.

A new one is ready to go out of the box. A used old style will probably need new gaskets (cheap and easy to replace) and the bases are notorious for rusting if not cared for.

[gammeltoft]

Hey,

I agree with cannonfodder, the millenium edition certainly adds some useful improvements.

To make things even more complicated, however, there is a very old model, hardly ever seen anymore, that may actually outperform both the newer ones. The very early edition sported a much higher quality base, not prone to rusting or tearing. It further has a metal boiler fill cap that looks rather sweet. But more interestingly, the grouphead of this model is welded on to the boiler is more chunky than any of the newer versions and according to those who have more experience with it actually more temp stable. This model, however, does not have a pressurestat (AFAIK).

Check out this picture:



Best

Thomas