What's the Mazzer with me? Pictures of New Paint Job; My thoughts on Super Jolly! - Page 2

[TimEggers]

Again, some great follow-ups!

I believe I have settled (no that's not the right word) chose the Macap Stepless/Doserless M4.

Why?

I think it suits my personal espresso making a little better than the others.

First, I make one shot at a time and often a deal of time between shots. Even if the doser does sweep clean, there are bound to be grounds in the thing. Not to mention the chute.

Second, I simply like the idea of doserless regardless of grounds retention (the Macap can't be any worse in this regard than the Rocky, and the Rocky doesn't bother me in this regard). It occurred to me last night that I could use my WDT needle to clear the chute on the Macap. Besides the chute must more accessible that the Rocky's. Frankly I don't find the Rocky to be all that messy. And yes my wife doesn't care about the mess. In fact there are days when she comments "I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't walk through the kitchen barefoot and not step on a stray coffee bean." I lovingly hug her and tell her I love her (and I really love her tolerance of my hobby). I think she knew this upgrade was coming, perhaps not so soon. But hey at least I'm making the money rather than taking from our joint account... (as long as I do that she could care less what I get). Have I mentioned how much I love her?

Third, I not only reread the grinder review, but I was reading some other consumer reviews on another site, and I must say they put the hype into perspective. I understand the point of the Mazzer having a fanboy like following (no offense to the Mazzer lovers, it is a great grinder no doubt). And Mazzer has had the luxury of time. I believe Macap is up and coming as more and more people begin to discover its "Mazzeresque" quality standard and performance. I have even read from Mazzer owners that the Macap does out do the Mazzer (if even only be a little bit) in some areas. Sure there is no perfect grinder, but I'm beginning to realize that maybe I let the Mazzer hype alter my point of view during the decision making process.

Conclusion:

Thanks to everyone here and you guidance and patience in helping me choose a grinder. After my research, discussion and soul searching I believe the Macap M4 DL/SL is the right grinder for me. Now to hope Chris gets one by the time I have the money!

[hperry]

If the Versalab had proved as fantastic as it was intended to be, I'd have bought that.
Ann

Too late to this discussion, but would be interested in knowing how you came to this conclusion. Versalab has: very even and predictable grind, continuous adjustment, no clumping and no need to clean the chute, giving you the ability to switch quickly from one coffee to another. Every obstacle that is mentioned with other grinders is, in my opinion, overcome with the Versalab. Since selling my Macap a couple of years ago I have never wanted another grinder. I think that those of us that successfully use a Versalab every day probably should speak out more vigorously in these discussions. I suppose I am somewhat intimidated by the fact that the most articulate negative voices on the Versalab are people whose opinions and experience I respect, have learned from, and largely agree with, in most other areas. About this one, their experience just doesn't square with my own.

[forgetcolor]

Now I've heard the Mazzer doserless is much neater than the Macap doserless. I'll say the Macap is neater than Rocky (also doserless in my house) but it does fling some coffee around. My solution was to replace the countertops with ones that don't show stray grounds (I'm kidding - that was a pleasant coincidence) but yeah, its a little messy around the grinder. Since you share your kitchen with someone that cares - that may be an issue. Since I share my kitchen with someone who just likes it when he gets a coffee drink, and could care less about cleanliness - it works for us.

Tim, one thing I can say for the M4 doserless is that if you're using the WDT, that yogurt cup helps keep the mess down a lot. I pop my yogurt cup into the basket and hold the PF under the M4 chute high enough that most every ground goes into the cup. Since I grind just enough for one shot at a time, it all works very simply. I then use a chopstick (seems to work better than my WDT needle handle, which is thicker) to swish out the remaining grinds. About half the shot comes out this way!

Another thing about the M4 I'm not sure was mentioned is that I don't use the hopper at all. I just dump my beans directly into the grinder and then cover the hole with a single shot basket. The space w/o the hopper is just enough to hold one coffee's worth of beans. This makes the grinder a lot shorter and, given the clearance I had between the cabinet and grinder top, a lot easier to get the beans in. This may be just as simple with the Mazzer, though.

Congrats on making a choice. I don't think you can go wrong at this point.

[randomperson]

If you are going doserless, look no further than the Mazzer Mini E. It is a dream machine -- the ergonomics are incredible! It holds your portafilter perfectly and grinds directly into it -- no fuss, no muss. It is very easy to find exactly where to move the collar so that you get the same grind every time -- very clear markings. It retains very few grounds between shots. It is incredibly easy to adjust the grind. And you can use it to automatically dose, if you choose. It is an amazing machine -- it you want doserless it is a fabulous choice!

[TimEggers]

If you are going doserless, look no further than the Mazzer Mini E. It is a dream machine -- the ergonomics are incredible! It holds your portafilter perfectly and grinds directly into it -- no fuss, no muss. It is very easy to find exactly where to move the collar so that you get the same grind every time -- very clear markings. It retains very few grounds between shots. It is incredibly easy to adjust the grind. And you can use it to automatically dose, if you choose. It is an amazing machine -- it you want doserless it is a fabulous choice!

It's a shame that the MME is a bit beyond my finances, but it does look like a very nice machine! I do however think I like the features of the Macap such as an on/off switch, and worm gear adjustments.

Frankly I doubt the Macap M4 stepless/doserless is going to be anymore messy than my doserless Rocky, and even there it isn't a bother. The Rocky has pretty bad grounds retention but I get around that by using a "grinding flush" where as I'll grind enough to flush out the old grounds with new ones, then I collect the grounds into my basket. I figure I'm not losing anymore than the guys who overfill the basket then level off onto the counter (I under fill my basket, seems to work best on the stock Gaggia basket).

All things considered I think the M4 doserless/stepless will suit my style a little better than a Mazzer. I could always score a used Mazzer and order a doserless conversion kit too (if I didn't like the doser)...

(Don't tell my wife...but I could see myself scoring a used Mazzer off of ebay...it's the nature of the beast...)

[TimEggers]

Well I hate to tell you guys this (but it shouldn't surprise you); I have decided to go another route with my grinder selection.

Enter the Mazzer Super Jolly.

I've been looking around the net and seen some really great things. I've really been trying to do my homework here. I simply want the best grinder I can possibly afford. So I took to shopping and found a few vendors that have a better price for the Mazzer Super Jolly than some other vendors I was looking at.

Suddenly the SuperJ is within my funds. Pending a sale of course.

I like the fact of the SuperJ being full commercial, not a smaller version of a commercial grinder. Plus it's just huge; I also really like the idea of larger burrs. I guess you could say I skipped the Mini/M4 step before really taking a foothold on it.

I decided to relax, a timer isn't a big deal and I would assume that with a doser it's even more practical. Plus if in a year or two from now if I absolutely find myself hating the doser I can convert it to a doserless with a kit from espressoparts.com (sure I could go homemade but I'm getting a little tired of the homemade look, it would be like spray painting a Ferrari). Of coarse I intend to treat myself to a brand new SuperJ even though they can be had on ebay for cheaper, I figure I have the money, I have the desire, I'm going to treat myself to a brand new Mazzer Super Jolly. Also with that comes the piece of mind that some flunky teenage "barista" didn't abuse it during his weekend summer job at the local coffee shop.

To the super Jolly owners out there:

How is the machine? (It's difficult to find too many reviews of it online)

Any tips?

Do the larger burrs really make a difference over the Mini?

Is the larger overall machine a better investment than a smaller machine such as the Mini?

I'm quite excited and look forward to my next grinder...

(Hopefully I'll just pick one and stick to it soon, looks like the MSJ is it...)

[k7qz]

Let's just bypass all the Mini and Macap hype- How about a "real" upgrade?

Instead of a SJ why not go conical? May I present for your consideration... The Kony!



Sure, smaller motor and smaller burrs than the Robur but you'll have an extra kilobuck in your pocket if you spring for this bad boy instead of the Robur!

[TimEggers]

Let's just bypass all the Mini and Macap hype- How about a "real" upgrade?

Instead of a SJ why not go conical? May I present for your consideration... The Kony!

<image>

Sure, smaller motor and smaller burrs than the Robur but you'll have an extra kilobuck in your pocket if you spring for this bad boy instead of the Robur!

I'm well aware of the Kony...also aware of it's price! Yikes!

Actually I decided to scale back to a Mini rather then the Super Jolly, only because it makes more sense for me and my funds.

So Mini it is...(until tomorrow when I will no doubt change again...)

[jesawdy]

Tim-

If there was ever a grinder to be purchased used, I'd say it was the Mazzer Super Jolly or Mazzer Major. Also, "do not fear the doser", I think you'd get over any of it's quirks pretty quick.

Since you seem to be pinging around looking at LOTS of grinders, the Cimbali Junior is a fine machine and pops up used in the usual places from time to time for ~$350. It's a bit boxy, and the case is similar to Rocky with the brushed stainless, if that matters to you. 64mm burrs on the Junior.

[scook94]

I went from a Rocky to Mazzer SJ. At the same time I ordered the SJ I also ordered the Doserless mod from espressoparts. I must say, I've had it for about 2 and a half months and I do love it. I had to modify my "ritual" but once I found my "technique" I have been more than delighted. The thing that struck me when I got the SJ though, was just how capable the Rocky had been!

[Worldman]

Since you seem to be pinging around looking at LOTS of grinders, the Cimbali Junior is a fine machine and pops up used in the usual places from time to time for ~$350. It's a bit boxy, and the case is similar to Rocky with the brushed stainless, if that matters to you. 64mm burrs on the Junior.

YES! The Junior is one whale of a grinder and IT WILL FIT UNDER YOUR OVERHEAD CABINETS (thanks to that "boxy" thing). Hey, it's got:
- 64mm burrs
- 300W motor
- good fit into any home kitchen.

Really, I wonder why it is not more popular than it is?

Len

[TimEggers]

Yeah I've looked at the Junior, the looks don't really appeal to me. The internals sure do though.

As far as the Rocky I must admit I'm not upgrading because I have to, I just want to. I'm sure the Macap/Mazzer step will be a little better. It's a lot of just wanting a new coffee toy!

I just wish I could pick one. Luckily the funds may not be available for another couple of weeks so I have plenty of shopping time.

I think it's down to a Macap Doserless/Stepless, Mazzer Mini, or Super Jolly. Here is what I am thinking:

Macap DL/SL:
Pros: Doserless, sensitive worm gear stepless adjustments, no doser to clean, seems to be well regarded
Cons: lack of available repair parts (like with Mazzer) probably not an issue, but something I noticed, lack of time on Market to become more established thank it is

Mazzer Mini:
Pros: King of the Hill, Established performer, legion of loyal Mazzer fans, great construction, excellent reviews
Cons: Doser (never used one, personally doesn't really bother me, it'll just be something new), Slightly more costly than the Macap, Micrometrical adjustment said to be a little less sensitive than the Macap worm gear setup

Mazzer SuperJ:
Pros: Mazzer Mini X2, larger burs as not to heat the coffee (but then again I only grind for one shot at a time, never consecutive shots, would this not be an issue for me? Perhaps a busy coffee shop yes, but me in my house?)
Cons: Price, not overly interested in a used machine, but not ruling it out either if the right deal came along, not interested in an ugly chipped paint grinder even if it is a steal

[mgwolf]

Tim,
One thing you might consider (which I've heard alluded to a few times) is the fact that the larger grinders (SJ), being larger, have more wasted coffee in the chute, etc. If you are grinding for yourself, one shot at a time, you may be distressed to find more coffee than you thought being wasted. Also, any of the machines you are considering are good and you would probably be happy with them. I upgraded from a Rocky to a Mazzer Mini and am much happier with the build quality, etc of the Mazzer despite it's often mentioned irritations. The reason you are obsessing endlessly is that there is no perfect home grinder. All of these grinders were designed for commercial use and not for the home -- so there are tradeoffs with each one. I am confident that you can work around each irritation for each grinder (since they're only irritations and not deal breakers) and would learn to love the one you owned.

Finally, the irritation for each grinder will be very individual. I briefly had a Macap stepped grinder. I think the doser action, cleanliness of the doser, etc. was nicer than the Mini. However, my problem was the adjustment ring was molded black plastic and I could not easily see the adjustments without a flashlight. I found this to be a PITA and much prefer the easily visible marking on the Mini. I happen to use the grinders for drip and espresso so I was moving the dial around a lot. You can see that many people wouldn't be bothered by this, but for me it was a deal breaker. The Mini's dirtier doser doesn't bother me nearly as much.

So, that's my 4 cents worth. You'll like whichever one you get. If you're still having trouble making a decision, start prozac and in 3 weeks, you'll be able to make a decision. Michael

[TimEggers]

Tim,
One thing you might consider (which I've heard alluded to a few times) is the fact that the larger grinders (SJ), being larger, have more wasted coffee in the chute, etc. If you are grinding for yourself, one shot at a time, you may be distressed to find more coffee than you thought being wasted. Also, any of the machines you are considering are good and you would probably be happy with them. I upgraded from a Rocky to a Mazzer Mini and am much happier with the build quality, etc of the Mazzer despite it's often mentioned irritations. The reason you are obsessing endlessly is that there is no perfect home grinder. All of these grinders were designed for commercial use and not for the home -- so there are tradeoffs with each one. I am confident that you can work around each irritation for each grinder (since they're only irritations and not deal breakers) and would learn to love the one you owned.

Finally, the irritation for each grinder will be very individual. I briefly had a Macap stepped grinder. I think the doser action, cleanliness of the doser, etc. was nicer than the Mini. However, my problem was the adjustment ring was molded black plastic and I could not easily see the adjustments without a flashlight. I found this to be a PITA and much prefer the easily visible marking on the Mini. I happen to use the grinders for drip and espresso so I was moving the dial around a lot. You can see that many people wouldn't be bothered by this, but for me it was a deal breaker. The Mini's dirtier doser doesn't bother me nearly as much.

So, that's my 4 cents worth. You'll like whichever one you get. If you're still having trouble making a decision, start prozac and in 3 weeks, you'll be able to make a decision. Michael

Excellent, excellent points. You're right; I'm most likely going to like whichever one I do end up choosing. They are all 3 excellent grinders. I do tend to knit pick a little too much. That's just my nature.

I also like your point on each not being 100% perfect, I agree, perfection doesn't exist. These 3 may be 99% though.

I emailed Chris at chriscoffee.com and they expect more Macap DL/SL next month. Think I'll wait for one of those. The doserless really appeals to me only because that's what I am currently used too.

Again your right, I really can't go wrong with any of these. I just need to stop jumping around and pick one. Besides in the grinder review they all faired equally in the most important category, grind quality. That's what truly matters to me. My only expectations are a great grind in a stepless grinder. Anything after that I can easily deal with.

[CyclingCraig]

One last thing to consider that made a difference for me is....

The Mazzer only came with a timer, NOT an On/Off switch... I grind for individual shots, so twising the timer to start it then twisting back, forcing it to off (possible affecting is life span) was something I didn't like.

my .02

[cannonfodder]

One last thing to consider that made a difference for me is....

The Mazzer only came with a timer, NOT an On/Off switch... I grind for individual shots, so twising the timer to start it then twisting back, forcing it to off (possible affecting is life span) was something I didn't like.

my .02

One of the reasons I prefer my Cimbali Jr grinder over my Mini, push button under the doser. That way you can hit it with your thumb while dosing, larger burrs and faster grind which tend to make less lumps and fluffier grounds help as well.

Any of the machines will work. Once you get one, you will start thinking about another upgrade. I have a Mini and Cimbali but my thoughts drift to the Kony. The madness never ends.

[TimEggers]

Well I pulled the trigger on a Mazzer Super Jolly on ebay!

$275 delivered was a deal too good to ignore. Besides I did sell my Rocky and my FreshRoast +8 and my final costs including shipping is a measly $20!

So basically a new-to-me Mazzer Super Jolly for $20!

Needless to say I'm way excited.

Any tips on getting "Big Ugly" dialed in?

Let the madness begin!

[TimEggers]

My deal on my Super Jolly just got a little sweeter as the Mini I was watching and bidding on just sold for $300+ and that's not counting the $50 shipping!

Wow, I guess a Super Jolly shipped for $275 isn't too bad after all.

If anyone else is looking, the same seller has 9 left (at the time of this writing).

Pros:
Great price
Cheap shipping compared to other ebay offers ($30 vs. $50+)
Tested for function (refurb)
Damaged parts replaced by seller
7-Day money back guarantee
Seller has great feedback
Seller is a company, which you purchase from through ebay (a little more security than a private party if you ask me)


Cons:
May need a little touch up paint (big deal at this price point)
Perhaps a new set of burrs
Big (I don't have to worry about cabinets...thank goodness)

The waiting is killing me...

[OlywaDave]

Cons:
May need a little touch up paint (big deal at this price point)
Perhaps a new set of burrs
Big (I don't have to worry about cabinets...thank goodness)

The waiting is killing me...

I'd always get a new set of burrs with a used grinder. That way you know exactly where you are in your replacement schedule. Hell when my Rocky burrs went I had no clue what happened... my espresso just sort of fell off and I couldn't figure out what was going on with my shots. Once I replaced the burrs I was back in the saddle.

[TimEggers]

I'd always get a new set of burrs with a used grinder. That way you know exactly where you are in your replacement schedule. Hell when my Rocky burrs went I had no clue what happened... my espresso just sort of fell off and I couldn't figure out what was going on with my shots. Once I replaced the burrs I was back in the saddle.

I couldn't agree more. Know where I might buy some?