What's so great about an Olympia Cremina?

[zubinpatrick]

Looking at a Cremina it appears to have the same basic design as a Pavoni. A boiler using steam pressure to force water to the head...etc.. I presume it has generally the same failings as a Pavoni. I am interested in knowing what about it makes it so sought after (other than rarity which does nothing for me). Is the stroke of the piston somehow longer/better? Is it just better looking? I have no idea but am interested in some info to chew on.

[HB]

Steve explains some of the Cremina's distinctions in the Bench review Olympia Cremina 2002: The evolution of design. In a nutshell, it's very well designed in terms of use and maintenance and finely constructed. How many of these distinctions translate to better espresso than other manual levers is a subject of regular debate. Karl offers an interesting comparison of the Elektra Microcasa a Leva, Ponte Vecchio Lusso, and Olympia Cremina in the Lever Espresso Machines Smackdown.

[zubinpatrick]

yeah, I've been all over the site reading reviews/comparisons etc...what i can't really work out is if the basic idea/dimensions are the same why is the cremina seen as so much better? Don't get me wrong, if it's better I probably want one, just want to know what I'm getting.

[caeffe]

...what i can't really work out is if the basic idea/dimensions are the same why is the cremina seen as so much better? Don't get me wrong, if it's better I probably want one, just want to know what I'm getting.

Don't forget the difference between want & need
A lot of us lever maniacs want a Cremina - me included. For some of us that want borders on obsessive need.
I too wonder what the difference would be. You & I can read someone's testament about it. In the end, you & I will want to taste & experience for ourselves. Maybe to confirm, maybe to deny.

As espresso/coffee is an individual experience, not sure if we'll ever know based on someone else's experience.

[TUS172]

Looking at a Cremina it appears to have the same basic design as a Pavoni. A boiler using steam pressure to force water to the head...etc.. I presume it has generally the same failings as a Pavoni. I am interested in knowing what about it makes it so sought after (other than rarity which does nothing for me). Is the stroke of the piston somehow longer/better? Is it just better looking? I have no idea but am interested in some info to chew on.

I have made espressos that are comparable from both machines. The pistons and seals are very close and the grouphead mass is not that different. So you are going to get very similar results using the same espresso roast and grind. My Pavonis are great machines and if just wanting a great espresso from a lever 'turned my key' then a Pavoni is my solution. But as you mentioned the Cremina grabbed my attention and I had to have 1...2 of them. But I will tell you that I would never get rid of my Pavonis either.

[zin1953]

OK, so I had a Pavoni Europiccola . . . got rid of it after some five years, and never looked back.

Now I have an Olympia Cafferex, and the quality of the espresso is excellent! If anything made me curious about getting a lever-model again, it was this Olympia. Now, let me hasten to add the obvious: it's a Cafferex, not a Cremina; an HX pump, not a lever. But still -- the quality of the coffee is the key, and it's got me thinking . . . and not about a Pavoni!

I know. This explains absolutely nothing. But I just felt like I should toss in my own 2¢; it's worth far less, and you may keep the change.

Cheers,
Jason

[zubinpatrick]

I have made espressos that are comparable from both machines. The pistons and seals are very close and the grouphead mass is not that different. So you are going to get very similar results using the same espresso roast and grind. My Pavonis are great machines and if just wanting a great espresso from a lever 'turned my key' then a Pavoni is my solution. But as you mentioned the Cremina grabbed my attention and I had to have 1...2 of them. But I will tell you that I would never get rid of my Pavonis either.

So I guess the whole cremina thing is just a sickness then??? A used Pav for $250 a used Cremina (with $$$$ hard to procure replacement parts) starting at probably $650 if you're lucky. And the sky is the limit after that.
I guess if I want something fancy at those prices i can buy a used 1 or 2 group commercial unit, maybe even an old spring lever. Have to brew in the basement though to get the 220 and space.
Frankly I think the market is wide open for someone to bring out a better lever machine. Something pretty but priced right (new euri is like $650)...who knows..I'm still interested in everyone's 2 cents on this, 'cause I think the Cremina sure is pretty.....and I need a reason to get one.

[HB]

I'm still interested in everyone's 2 cents on this, 'cause I think the Cremina sure is pretty.....and I need a reason to get one.

Some people will pay a few thousand dollars for a wristwatch. My best wristwatch cost a few hundred dollars. Does that mean the people paying 10x as much as me are fools? No, they just value exceptional quality among wristwatches more than I do.

[zin1953]

.....and I need a reason to get one.

No. You don't.

At some point, quality gives way to aesthetics. I know -- in my head -- that the La Spaziale Vivaldi II is a great machine, but my heart can't get past the fact I think it's -- well, I think it's not very good looking (how's that?), and that I can't see it in my kitchen. The same goes for the La Cimbali Junior, for example, if one compares to the beauty of an Elektra A3/T1. Both are great machines, and although the Cimbali has much to recommend it, I can't get the beauty of the Elektra out of my mind . . . uh, heart.

As Caesar has already said above, "Don't forget the difference between 'want" and 'need'." There is nothing wrong with "wanting"; just don't confuse it for "needing."

The reason to get an Olympia Cremina is because you want one. Trust me: nobody needs one. Nobody needs an espresso machine, period. But a number of us WANT them . . .

Cheers,
Jason

[TUS172]

So I guess the whole cremina thing is just a sickness then??? A used Pav for $250 a used Cremina (with $$$$ hard to procure replacement parts) starting at probably $650 if you're lucky. And the sky is the limit after that.

Nope no sickness... I bought my 1st Cremina for $400.00 and the 2nd ended up costing $440.00... (Ebay). I invested a portafilter and drip tray into the 1st one and the 2nd needed some repair work... My point was that the espresso won't be markedly better... The Cremina is a much more practical choice than a Pavoni because its design is more stable, it is safer to use (Potential of 2nd degree burns on the Pavoni), It is a very precisely made machine with high quality materials and it will literally last a lifetime if taken care of. But if the only reason you are buying it is because of better espresso you are not buying for the right reason. As Dan Kehn expressed it is all in 'taste'... some people like Corvettes others like Porsches...

[zin1953]

...The Cremina is a much more practical choice than a Pavoni because its design is more stable, it is safer to use (Potential of 2nd degree burns on the Pavoni)...

That, too!

Speaking from personal experience, I burned myself more than once on the Pavoni, and when I choked the pf (and didn't know enough to stop, toss it out and re-load), I tipped the damned thing over a couple of times, too!

[KarlSchneider]

We as a group are enamored of lever machines. They celebrate getting back to basics and making the user totally immersed in the process. The Cremina exemplifies this form follows function simplicity. Indeed, it is the pinnacle of manual lever machines. The machine is designed for extreme quality and simplicity and to last a lifetime. Part and parcel to this is to avoid all unnecessary complication. Every part is needed and nothing extra. It's beauty lies in the simple elegance and superb results that it is capable in the hands of a skilled owner. We enjoy using our hands to craft that special pull even using the feedback of the lever feel to involve us with the process. <snip> The user involvement is what these machines are about.

I find this passage from Bob Craige to answer your question as eloquently as any I have heard. A Cremina is the pinnacle of manual lever machines, designed for extreme quality, simplicity, lasting a lifetime. If you enjoy using your hands (or would) in crafting a special pull nothing compares to a Cremina as the best tool for this.

A Pavoni is not designed for extreme quality (as a machine) but for good quality. It is also a simple machine. It is not intended to last a lifetime. One can craft fine espresso by hand with a Pavoni. The differences are transparent. Involvement in this making of espresso includes reverence for the machine and great skill in the process and appreciation of the results.

KS

[arrow]

I have both machines including some early model Pavoni's. The Olympia is better for several reasons the main one being its easier to make good coffee with. Pavoni Machine suffer from getting too hot. If you leave them on for slightly too long before making your cuppa the heat builds up in the metal and has the potential to burn your coffee. You can prevent this by venting steam being and being careful not to leave the machine on in between cups.
The olympia seems to have a better quality heat regulator than the Pavoni. Its a chunky little box on the side of the boiler.
Early pavonis are steam valve regulated with the addition of a manual switch maximum and minimum heat (maximo minimo) you have to wait for the steam value to pop and then switch the machine to minimum to manually adjust the pressure. These machines are great and make an excellent cuppa, they really have a hands on feel like you are driving a train and waiting for the pressure to build so you can egress in your mighty machine. With the olympia you don't need to be so careful, so its easier and you get in wrong less often and then its down to tamping your coffee correctly.
I

[danno]

I had a Europiccola for many years, but once I got a Cremina, there was no going back. The Cremina is made with significantly higher grade materials throughout and everything is more precisely engineered and assembled. Although a La Pavoni heats up quicker, the Olympia maintains much more stable temperature. There is no need to dance around the grouphead heat issue that La Pavonis experience with Creminas. The lever action and steaming quality are superior with the Cremina, too.

Both machines are essentially the same in basic design. The details, though, are very different. I get absolutely consistent results with the Cremina, period. If there is a problem, it is me not the machine. I could get nearly equal shots with the Europiccola, but that was a hit-or-miss affair.

I prefer the La Pavoni's aesthetics a bit more than the Olympia's look, but the Cremina's functionality and stability trump everything. Think of it this way: You can get a Nissan and it will be a very good car, or you can get an Infiniti and smile knowing that the extra money bought something better made.