What is the proper etiquette when served poor espresso ? - Page 3

[TheCod Father]

I have bean (sorry couldn't help it) re reading this post and I think with other experiences I've had and reading other posts and PM's that I guess I wasn't alone .

Unfortunately I think the main problem here is different levels of what is acceptable varies from place to place as well as what level of training has been passed on to the person making the coffee . I don't use the word Barista often because just because they serve coffee doesn't make someone a Barista ,that is a rank and Title that should be earned just as being able to reheat pizza in the microwave doesn't allow you to pass yourself off as a Cordon Bleu Chef!
It is hard to expect to find a part time student at minimum wage to have the same passion for good coffee that most of the members here are familiar with . I recently asked a young lady at a local espresso spot how she came to wear an apron with Barista on it and what she had done to earn it and she told me that of the 3 people working that she didn't burn herself with the steam "thingy" and the others were afraid to use it any more ......

It seems to me that life is a terrible thing to have happen to some people .

ALL I WANT IS A DECENT CUP OF ESPRESSO <IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK !

I still haven't found a good way to respond to a PBTC if I get an unacceptable cup of coffee as most times they really don't give a s**t and as was stated before you are likely as not to get something "special " added to the remake you ask for . However I do find that I do ask more questions to the PBTC before placing my order and I also don't mind taking the time to compliment the person who made my coffee if it was acceptable ,I will also keep a look out for that same person on my next visit .It takes less time to toss a bouquet than it does a brick and you feel much better for it .

Sorry for the rant ..

TCF

[bernie]

It is hard to expect to find a part time student at minimum wage to have the same passion for good coffee that most of the members here are familiar with .

TCF

How much would you be willing to pay for a consistently excellent double espresso?
Bernie

[HB]

How much would you be willing to pay for a consistently excellent double espresso?

I would pay double the going rate without a second thought and triple if it were truly excellent.

[TheCod Father]

How much would you be willing to pay for a consistently excellent double espresso?
Bernie

If it was good and consistently good . Double what I end up getting fleeced for second rate drip wash I get passed off with as espresso now .

I have never had a problem paying extra for both good service and good product , plus my word of mouth on the wonderful product .

TCF

[bernie]

I would pay double the going rate without a second thought and triple if it were truly excellent.

I ask because we use a LM 2group which is PID'd. Shots at this altitude of 4200' are pulled at 199F. We have a water filtration system that first softens the water then filters it through 3 Kinetico filters and thence through an RO membrane. After that it goes through a trickle filter and the TDS is brought up to 115ppm. The grinder is a LM Swift. The shots are all pulled after the triple basket is flushed with the tea spout and knocked to shed excess moisture. Shots are all timed at 25-28 seconds into pre-heated shot glasses to see how the shot pulls. A shot is a shot in our shop and is 21grams at 25 seconds and 1.75oz finished. I guess it would be a double by most standards. We roast in-house and I have been roasting for about 10 years. The espresso blend is brazil mariah, celebes kalosi (sulawesi), guat huehuetenango and a colombian bucharamanga. The espresso is roasted about every 4th day and the beans are rarely more than 6 days out. Crema is observed to make sure the 'guiness drop' is observed and the color has to be a deep reddish. It is served in a heavy 2oz demitasse and saucer with a demitasse spoon. It'll cost you $1.75. I can probably name the customers who order straight espresso as could most shops not in a major market. There just isn't enough demand for excellent espresso yet.
Bernie

[HB]

It'll cost you $1.75. I can probably name the customers who order straight espresso as could most shops not in a major market. There just isn't enough demand for excellent espresso yet.

You're right, straight espressos are rarely ordered even at good shops around here. As I said, I would gratefully pay double your current menu prices if the drinks are as good as your careful description suggests. It'd still be cheaper than the sugar-laced foo foo drinks chains churn out by the buckets every day.

[IMAWriter]

Well...since you weren't served a "proper" espresso, I'd reply with an improper response (yelled ala Jerry Lewis)"LADY, Oh LADY!!!!!!....this stuff tastes like bear whizz."
OK, seriously....as someone else posted, anyone pulling such crap would have no idea what you would be talking about....I would have asked for my money back, however. My guess is if you had done so, you'd feel a whole lot better about your manly self right now!


EDIT..I meant pulling such a crappy shot...

[Jacob]

Educate the staff and warn the public

[fflewddur]

Crema is observed to make sure the 'guiness drop' is observed and the color has to be a deep reddish. It is served in a heavy 2oz demitasse and saucer with a demitasse spoon. It'll cost you $1.75.

bernie... the description is making me salivate. I would gladly pay twice that for consistently good quality... in fact I currently pay $3 at a local shop / roaster where occasionally my short latte is really good and usually its adequate. Only rarely is it borderline undrinkable.

I can probably name the customers who order straight espresso as could most shops not in a major market.

I can count the number of truly excellent straight shots I've had at even good shops over the years.

Seriously though... I'm facing this issue at work. The cafeteria has a very nice setup, LM Linea & a pair of conical Macap. They're serving $B... but still a little technique could go a long long way towards better coffee. I'm always amazed at the willingness for a company to invest in equipment and not training.

I find it quite frustrating & stomach turning to watch them serve consistently some of the worst prepared espresso I've ever seen (or tasted). Every time I don't politely decline someone else's offer of a free drink I regret it.

As to what to say... if there is a nasty foul (dirty) taste, I have a hard time not showing a physical reaction to the bad drink. If you were eating poorly prepared or slightly spoilt food at a restaurant, what would your reaction be.

On the bright side, this will soon be a moot point for me... a gaggia factory will soon be taking up residence in my office. I'm still looking for a good opportunity to tactfully & constructively discuss training with the cafeteria management.

[Psyd]

I'm still looking for a good opportunity to tactfully & constructively discuss training with the cafeteria management.

Find the one that orders coffee in the caff and offer him something from your 'private stash', as you've noticed that he is a fellow espresso lover. When his eyes light up, let him know that the only difference between the stuff available in your office and the stuff being available 'on tap' in the caff is sourcing better beans and getting the staff an hour of intro training. It takes very little for espresso to go from disgusting to acceptable, and little more to get it form there to 'pretty good'. The rest, as we all know, follows the laws of diminishing returns, and getting past 'pretty good' requires a bit more attention and time. I'd be danged happy if I could get 'pretty good' espresso on tap in the caff in my shop.

[quiltmaster]

I ask because we use a LM 2group which is PID'd. Shots at this altitude of 4200' are pulled at 199F. We have a water filtration system that first softens the water then filters it through 3 Kinetico filters and thence through an RO membrane. After that it goes through a trickle filter and the TDS is brought up to 115ppm. The grinder is a LM Swift. The shots are all pulled after the triple basket is flushed with the tea spout and knocked to shed excess moisture. Shots are all timed at 25-28 seconds into pre-heated shot glasses to see how the shot pulls. A shot is a shot in our shop and is 21grams at 25 seconds and 1.75oz finished. I guess it would be a double by most standards. We roast in-house and I have been roasting for about 10 years. The espresso blend is brazil mariah, celebes kalosi (sulawesi), guat huehuetenango and a colombian bucharamanga. The espresso is roasted about every 4th day and the beans are rarely more than 6 days out. Crema is observed to make sure the 'guiness drop' is observed and the color has to be a deep reddish. It is served in a heavy 2oz demitasse and saucer with a demitasse spoon. It'll cost you $1.75. I can probably name the customers who order straight espresso as could most shops not in a major market. There just isn't enough demand for excellent espresso yet.
Bernie

Can I please come live with you?

[bernie]

Can I please come live with you?

My wife is out of town on a 90-day consulting gig in Kansas City. She gave specific admonition that I was not to take in any more strays, two or four-legged, in her absence. She specifically said no espresso strays. 'stressos' would be the term. The two dogs, Otis and Tipper, prefer I donate to the animal shelter rather than take in more creatures. The cat, Sloopy, who lives at the warehouse in a nicely appointed apartment is happy to be an only cat and shares the dogs outlook. Sloopy has the run of a two-bedroom apartment with refrigerated air. So, perhaps you could live in the apartment at the warehouse with the cat and we would pass you off as just another unfinished project alongside the numerous espresso machines, motorcycles, scooter, fishtanks and suit of armor.
Bernie

[Psyd]

and suit of armor.

Does that mean that one of your other hobbies is hitting your friends with sticks?

Psyd (wire wienie...)

[bernie]

Does that mean that one of your other hobbies is hitting your friends with sticks?

Psyd (wire wienie...)

Naw. A friend is an artist and stores some of his performance props in the warehouse. He lets me use his bench press to mix up my bio-diesel. I don't play the ukelele he has down there, though.
Bernie

[orphanespresso]

Very interesting discussion, and it brings up a good question - not a rhetorical one - not including the barista that didn't know that you were supposed to 'change' the coffee in the portafilter, or the one who's boss had ground all the beans the week before to have them 'ready to go', and other examples of total & complete incompetence, the question is, why, when going into a shop which advertises espresso do we always assume the worst? Wanting a good shot, but merely hoping for the best...then accept much less than the best?

The straight shot is the cheapest thing on the menu, therefore, purchasing a single or a double carries the least risk. We are far, far less experienced than many who post on this board, but can diagnose rather quickly - over extraction, temperature too high, stale beans, etc. Today we were across the border, in Mexico, and we were amazed to stumble across an Espresso Cafe, 2 group LM, nice grinder, tamper, about a 40 ounce double was produced. Stale beans, we paid our 16 pesos, drank the cup, and considered ourselves lucky. But, as a consumer you get this funny feeling that you have such low expectations, and it's such a surprise when the espresso is good! Happens, unfortunately, infrequently.

When we go to a hamburger joint we hope for a great hamburger, accept a good one, and throw away a really bad one (or reject it without remorse). But using the logic presented in other posts about ignorance, and inexperience in espresso, it would follow that people have ignorance & inexperience in hamburgers, I don't think this is the case. So, is it that the Barista doesn't know, or doesn't care? Ignorance one can easily forgive, and hope to remedy, indifference can neither be remedied, or forgiven easily.

The one good thing about having low expectations, but being willing to give a new place a try, is that it can lead to some wonderful surprises! And, when far afield, and desperate, we eat chocolate.

[chrisweaver]

ha haa, where I work in jolly England, specifically Lincoln, a little backwater City in the middle of nowhere. I prey for someone to complain about my coffee. Because at least that would show at least some kind of taste memory regarding good coffee.

I could honestly serve someone a single shot topped up with hot water, and tell them its a double, and they'd probably prefer it

I cry myself to sleep!

So please people, complain, you'll make someones day!

[bernie]

Coincidentally I took my baker to lunch yesterday at a new Italian restaurant here in southern NM. It had been a Jonny Carino's that went bust. They spent a ton of money on the revamp of the interior and had a decent looking menu. I spotted a Laranzato 2group all shined up and ready to go. So after a passable lunch I ordered a double espresso. The baker just looked at me and rolled his eyes. Sure enough, the owners, managers, staff et al were not able to produce a drinkable espresso in spite of what had to be at least a million dollars in renovation costs. The server asked how the drink was and I told her it was horrible and undrinkable. She just smiled and said, "Yeah, I know." No offer to take it off the bill or ask the manager to come over. I don't fault her. I see a ton of newcomers to town as well as long-time residents. When asked about this new place I'll be honest. I still have that ashy, cardboard taste in my memory.
Bernie

[fflewddur]

why, when going into a shop which advertises espresso do we always assume the worst?

Personally, I hate to get my hopes up, but we should always expect the unexpected...

Why I was looking for food on the drive from Albany, Ore to Seattle and stopped off at an unknown exit to get subway, but they were closed. I was already a little grumpy because I had skipped hitting stumptown in Portland due to time. I spotted a coffee shop in a strip mall and was steeling myself for the worst when to my surprise I noticed USBC plaques on the wall... I had stumbled into Lava Java and Phuong Tran made a beautiful & tasty short latte, it made my whole day.

Find the one that orders coffee in the caff and offer him something from your 'private stash'

As far as work goes, the cafeteria has a corporate contract, probably signed in blood with $B and there is no one person to woo or bribe; the best I can hope for is more training, but I'm still plotting on that one. Secretly replacing all of their 64oz mega big gulp sized milk pitchers with right-sized ones has come to mind more than once.

Besides I brought in an extra grinder and french press last week which made an amazing difference in my mood & the gaggia factory from WLL should arrive tomorrow, it will find its way to work on Monday.