What is the proper etiquette when served poor espresso ? - Page 2

[CremaKatz]

Not to interrupt the heated debate in Newfoundland, but...

I try to make a point of declining poorly extracted shots.
I shouldn't have to drink it, and it helps the next guy...
If possible, I explain why.

I think it's more important to communicate up front
when you order, if you have any doubt. If you order
a "short" espresso, you give an indication that you want
something in particular and you have grounds (no pun intended)
for rejecting the result as not "short".

If you go to a particular espresso joint regularly, or if it is
in your neighborhood, it's worth cultivating your barista.
Making friends first and discussing the virtues of various
aspects of a great espresso can lead to superior results.
Yes, the owner of a coffee shop should know what good
coffee is and should train staff. But if you go there often
(or want to) it may be in your interest to do it yourself.
Anyway it's more pleasant to be friendly with someone
you see regularly.

Years ago I brought a friend to a favorite restaurant.
He particularly liked the chai tea, but was frustrated by
the lack of sugar dispensers. During the holiday season,
he bought a few sugar dispensers for the restaurant. Ever
since, he has been treated like a king. Buy your barista
a decent tamper.

[psycho_supreme]

you have grounds (no pun intended)
for rejecting the result as not "short".

agreed.

During the holiday season,
he bought a few sugar dispensers for the restaurant. Ever
since, he has been treated like a king. Buy your barista
a decent tamper.

she works at a showroom and retailer, there are at least 5 tampers on hand I know of at the shop he speaks of.
It's just seems like lack of training as it is it fact a showroom to me.

[Dan Streetman]

I had lunch one time at a place that serves espresso roasted and blended by one of the more well known roasters on this forum (so you would think the shop cares/knows what they are doing), which also made me a little excited to get some of yyy blend of espresso.

so I ordered a sandwich and a double, when they brought me my espresso in a 5oz capp cup full to the brim, I took one sip and winced, pushed it aside and ate my sandwich.

when I left I made it a point to take my dishes to one of the employees, (espresso cup still full) and politely said, "thank you the sandwich was great, but the espresso was not quite what I expected" and left.

[Niko]

Sounds like they brought you an Americano

[psycho_supreme]

I had lunch one time at a place that serves espresso roasted and blended by one of the more well known roasters on this forum (so you would think the shop cares/knows what they are doing), which also made me a little excited to get some of yyy blend of espresso.

so I ordered a sandwich and a double, when they brought me my espresso in a 5oz capp cup full to the brim, I took one sip and winced, pushed it aside and ate my sandwich.

when I left I made it a point to take my dishes to one of the employees, (espresso cup still full) and politely said, "thank you the sandwich was great, but the espresso was not quite what I expected" and left.

you should have said the espresso wasn't right; they are probably under the impression that you didn't know what espresso was if it "wasn't what you expected"

[Dan Streetman]

no they knew what I meant, I watched the girl go up to the guy who pulled my shot and ask him "what is this?" as I walked out. He mumbled something about the grind.


I actually really like ~5oz americano's with a double shot in them

[psycho_supreme]

I watched the girl go up to the guy who pulled my shot and ask him "what is this?" as I walked out. He mumbled something about the grind.

bahah that's awesome: "the grind made me pull a 5oz overextracted shot". lol

It's great that he is held responsible for that, it shows that the cafe actually cares! You may have actually just have gotten an undertrained barista or the forbidden "sink shot" that happens every now and then that shouldn't be served.

I do have to wonder what a 5oz cup was doing there to begin with if he was planning on serving a double of espresso? why not a demitasse?

just have to laugh sometimes i guess !

[TheCod Father]

I hope that as more people get familiar with the proper terminology and learning what they like ,likewise the coffee bars and restaurants will also take more care in training their staff and have proper baristas ,like our psycho_supreme, and not just some waitress who knows to run the espresso machine.

Hopefully the damage that has been done Sbux and chain stores that think a splash of flavoured syrup makes a latte.

TCF

[psycho_supreme]

I hope that as more people get familiar with the proper terminology and learning what they like ,likewise the coffee bars and restaurants will also take more care in training their staff and have proper baristas ,like our psycho_supreme, and not just some waitress who knows to run the espresso machine.

Hopefully the damage that has been done Sbux and chain stores that think a splash of flavoured syrup makes a latte.

TCF

wahooo, thanks TCF.

now if only everyone was this interested. I have found, for mostly girls anyway, if you can help them pour latte art (hearts especially) then they are proud to serve their drink they have built. I guess this should go for anyone.

Espresso should be culinary, and it IS a respectable job. Take pride, and you will have a much better product!

- Matt

[Psyd]

she works at a showroom and retailer...
It's just seems like lack of training as it is it fact a showroom to me.

Just what are they trying to show in this room? Is it anything that wouldn't be affected by a prospective purchaser getting lousy shots? If they're selling their roast, bad shots aren't helping. If they're selling machinery, bad shots aren't helping.
If this guy has espresso there to boost sales of whatever it is, and the shots aren't decent, it's taking away from his business. That it's a showroom and not a cafe doesn't mean that it's not necessary for quality to shine through.

[psycho_supreme]

Just what are they trying to show in this room? Is it anything that wouldn't be affected by a prospective purchaser getting lousy shots? If they're selling their roast, bad shots aren't helping. If they're selling machinery, bad shots aren't helping.
If this guy has espresso there to boost sales of whatever it is, and the shots aren't decent, it's taking away from his business. That it's a showroom and not a cafe doesn't mean that it's not necessary for quality to shine through.

I am not getting involved in this discussion, this is getting out of hand.....

[Merlino]

I do have to wonder what a 5oz cup was doing there to begin with if he was planning on serving a double of espresso? why not a demitasse?

I can only answer that question keeping in mind the coffee culture here in The Netherlands. We also serve doubles in a 5oz cup (however, we do serve the proper volume of 60ml) but that is because our customers could easily think that they were being served a single and charged a double if we served it to them in a true espresso cup. Needless to say, not everyone around here understands that 30mls don't fill a cup to the brim

I gather the same line of thought applies to the coffee bar in question.

[espressme]

Normally I am happy to settle for a drinkable latte when I go to cafe or business place to hang out or read.
I heard this exchange in an "internet espresso cafe" I visited yesterday for the first and last time.
A computer type was commenting about something one of the customers said. To another geek he said "I own the cafe, I don't hafta like coffee!"
My Latte didn't even cover the rankness of the stale beans. I left it. A great Espresso Machine, fueled by old canned beans, run by questionable talent.
I didn't waste the effort.
cheers
Richard
PS, We have a major coffee distributor in the area that pushes hi end machines and hi end grinders. Then he supplies his ultimo supremo espresso roasted beans in a 3# tin.

It is not what we don't know that causes most problems,It is what we know that is not necessarily so.

[Psyd]

I am not getting involved in this discussion, this is getting out of hand.....

I'm sorry if it seemed 'out of hand' but my curiosity was piqued by the number of times the fact that it was a showroom and not a cafe was used to explain why the coffee should have an expectation of quality. I didn't mean to impugn the place (as, seriously, neither have I been there not have I drunk their espresso) I was just wondering about the attitude that the person is off the hook because it's a showroom. Shouldn't the showroom coffee be great?
Although, there is an espresso cart in the middle of the auto dealer's showroom floor where I was shooting a commercial, I'm pretty sure that there espresso is terrible. I just can't imagine... I dunno, maybe I should go try it. Wouldn't it be a hoot if it were great?

[timo888]

Today I was served some bad bad bad [imagine a Mr Yuck emoticon here] espresso by a new shop in town, a franchise of a large (but not the large$t) chain. Since there were customers waiting in line behind me, I did not pull a Badalamenti on the barista, not wanting to embarrass him ... and I had no linen napkin.

So I emailed the parent company and told them their reputation was going downhill fast if they let sink shots go across the counter -- nearly boiling, a thin swirl of pale yellow crema ... terribly overextracted. The parent company is sending me some coffee beans and forwarding my email to the franchisee.

[keno]

What is the proper way to go back and deal with this or is not going back dealing with it well enough?

I think I would have step back up to the counter and quote Tigger (you know Pooh's compatriot), who said upon tasting his honey:

"Yuck, this icky stuff is only fit for heffalumps and woozels"

[espressme]

Well the regional coffee supplier is at it again. Living in the stix s@cks!

A poor sod has spent close to 100 grand on a beautiful shop with really nice decor, tables with straight chairs, and overstuffed chairs and couches too. Has a drive up window off a busy street; Location,location,location. LaSpaz two group and grinder. No tamper!

Brew was burnt, ashy, weak. PBTC put two whacks in a double basket, four second pour..Yatta racheta..
I complained and she pulled another with three whacks. //maybe 10 grams of big grind no tamp.
Well I'd been on the road. Worth the price to use the rest room. Didn't drink the shot. As I was leaving I set the un-quaffed cuppa on the counter. The owner asked if I liked the espresso. I told him 'no.'

"Well' he says, "I am a highly trained barista and my supplier says that this is perfect espresso!"
"What is wrong with it?" You know the rest.. "Well" indignantly, says he, "I won't change my way of doing things just because one person doesn't like it!" "My customers are perfectly happy." emphatically, he spoke!

I said no more and went home, dug out a steam toy, used bitter smelling old beans that were laying around and duplicated his results perfectly!

Seems S%^'s Clu* uses the same "Connoisseur" beans.

Cheers and remember to "Thank the coffee gods for home machines of good quality."
Richard / espressme

[Psyd]

Seems S%^'s Clu* uses the same "Connoisseur" beans.

Who? 'S%^'s Clu*'?!? Who are you protecting here, and why? If they are using the beans that you suggest they are, then there is no damage done. If they aren't, then, you did say "it seems". No liability attaches
And, they're completely able to come here and post any denials they need to post.

[espressme]

Major retailer "Sam's Club" I figured this group would get it.. :)

[Randy G.]

"Well' he says, "I am a highly trained barista and my supplier says that this is perfect espresso!"

My reply at that point would have been, "Then you're both idiots."

what his statement actually meant is: "The guy who's making a fortune off me selling me crap coffee beans says I'm doing just fine."

Yaa... "Highly trained" means he read the manual on how to put together his designer tables... twice.

Pretty clear that he learned little from whatever source he relied upon, and also that he will probably never learn any more then he now knows, other than when he learns it is really expensive when your coffee shop goes out of business. Keep an eye on the place-- might get a deal on a hardly-used grinder soon!

I saw a similar incident while not enjoying a nasty-tasting cappa in a coffee shop that use to advertise in my newspaper. A customer came in, got an order to go, and left. Returning a few minutes later he requested some suger, stating that the beverage was quite bitter. He was informed that he probably just ordered the wrong drink and net time should get..... whatever was recommended, I forget. If it was anything like the cappa I had, there wouldn't be a next time for that customer. The place finally went out of business.

I might have something to add soon- I just heard about a coffee shop in the area and I am planning on trying it this weekend... By Monday I should have either a story about a good espresso, or a good story about being thrown out of a coffee shop.