What do you think of baristas who don't drink coffee?

[Mambeu]

What do you think of people who work as baristas, preparing coffee drinks, who don't actually drink coffee? Working as a barista myself (the coffee-drinking kind), I'm astounded and disappointed at how common this seems to be.

In your opinion, can someone who doesn't drink coffee be a good barista? Is it necessary to drink coffee if you prepare and serve it?

What about baristas (baristi?) who drink coffee only in flavored-/mocha-latte drinks? Do you need to love espresso?

[TimEggers]

To me tasting is an integral part of the process. It's the means to inflict change. Without tasting how can one truly evaluate and elevate their performance?

Interesting...

[HB]

I've never heard of a great chef who didn't love food, a great sommelier who wasn't passionate about wine, or a great baker who wasn't fascinated by breadmaking. Why would coffee be any different? I suppose one could learn the mechanics and make gross adjustments by appearance of the pour ("eye cupping"), but truly exceptional espresso comes from exceedingly small adjustments based on tasting the result.

So what about a barista who doesn't like coffee? Well, all I can say is that I hope it's a (short) part time gig to earn money. For the long version, see Hope springs eternal.

[another_jim]

They're just taking jobs away from someone who could be good. If they are personable, they can make just as much or more money in another service job; so I would say they are in the wrong spot.

[King Seven]

Would you buy your meat from a vegetarian butcher (should one ever actually exist)?

I think its pretty shocking the distance allowed between many people serving the drinks behind coffee bars and the taste of the coffee they are serving. (if that makes sense?)

[Alex_chef2000]

Hi there, it is more common than many people think. In many places in America, the barista is only the person who prepares hot drinks, just another employee with not much experience drinking coffee at all that has a training of two hours before preparing Espresso drinks.

In all cases the barista that never drinks an espresso, will produce the worst drinks. That is why Charbucks uses only super-automatic machines in all their stores, they don't have any trained barista to do the job.

My two cents,


Alex.:

[danblev]

Reminds me; when was the last time I had great coffee out?

Oh, that was when I was in Vancouver in summer at Caffe Artigiano!

Although this is totally not funny , I do see it as an great business opportunity.
-
Danny

[Mambeu]

So what about a barista who doesn't like coffee? Well, all I can say is that I hope it's a (short) part time gig to earn money.

I think that's a big part of the problem. For me personally, my job as a barista is the first step to a career in coffee. For many of my coworkers, it's just a job, where you put in your time and then go home and don't think about coffee.

As an example, my non-coffee drinking colleagues will set the grind by a stopwatch and nothing else. I've seen people get the coffee to pull in 25-30 seconds, and they're satisfied. Me? I'll adjust the grind until it tastes like I think it should, and then sometimes I'll time a shot out of curiosity. It's almost always 30 or 31 seconds. I prefer the taste of a shot pulled in that amount of time, I guess. Other people set the grind to whatever pulls in the requisite time, not because they prefer the taste.

I didn't drink coffee at all when I was hired, but then, I wasn't hired as a barista. I began to drink coffee and found myself fascinated by the stuff, and eventually convinced the management to put me on the bar.

Maybe it's possible to make good drinks without drinking coffee. But I think the quality of the drinks a barista is putting out goes up tremendously when that barista is tasting everything, and trying to produce what they find tastes best.

[John P]

Don't blame the wannabe barista. Blame the owner. It shows they have no concern about the quality of what they serve. Sad, but true.

[Kaffee Bitte]

I agree that the owner is usually at fault. Often the owner or manager doesn't know coffee from a fetid dingo's kidney.
In my experience the people who drink their own pulls will pull better shots simply because they are more likely to change parameters once they have a few bad ones. But it is not impossible to find a few non coffee drinking baristi that know what they are doing. Rare mind you but not impossible. Usually these people have been trained well by someone who does know what they are doing and who critique the shots of the non drinker. In my work place I work with a young woman who hates the taste of coffee, but loves the smell and enjoys making the drinks. She actually pulls decent shots on a regular basis. She tells me she judges her shots by look and aroma, I don't know seems to work ok. The owners do know coffee and their training coupled with a barista or two that geekify on espresso help.
Out on the coffee shop prowl though, personally, I look for a barista that asks questions and understands the terminology. More questions often equals someone who wants to make you a drink that is worth paying for. When I walk into a new place I ask for an uncommon drink, like a ristretto, or throw out some Italian terms instead. The PBTC that has no idea what you just said, should NOT under ANY circumstances be allowed to make you a coffee. Ristrettos are a great way of separating the wheat from the chaff because when you have had one you know what it should be like. If you get a single normale instead, you can walk out the door and never go back. Or at least not to that particular barista. This doesn't by any stretch mean that I critique the persons shot pulling. I just keep quiet and leave. On the other hand when I get what I asked for and it is good I make certain that barista knows they did just what I wanted. Good feedback will keep that person in the job. Bad feedback usually just gets you kicked out on your keester.
Just my thoughts for $2.50.
Lynn

[Kaffee Bitte]

They're just taking jobs away from someone who could be good. If they are personable, they can make just as much or more money in another service job; so I would say they are in the wrong spot.

Trust me they would make more by far. My tips are good because I have worked as a barista in my present shop for quite a while. I have worked hard to help the owners build their customer base. (started when they opened the doors). The regular customers who are coffee fanatics know who is passionate about the cup. It also helps to be personable, but that doesn't mean nice. You have to rough up some customers, and kid glove others. Read the body language!
Lynn

[John P]

Occasionally I'm a bastard, but a great cup creates harmony.

[BigFrank]

I'm no barista, but I liken it to bartenders who don't drink alcohol.

My GF used to tend bar and yet she can't drink - but she actually makes quite good drinks. go figure!
I think if you are taught good techniques and use your other senses you could be quite competent.

My take: You probably can't be a *great* barista unless you drink coffee -- but you might be a good one...

Take it with a grain of salt though.

[OlywaDave]

Funny, we were just talking about this yesterday...

You have to drink coffee. How else would you know what a perfect shot tastes like? I think that barista who don't drink shots have a hard time making one someone can appreciate.

I'll also respond to Frank's comment above by saying it isn't impossible for a non-coffee drinking barista to be good but it ain't likely either.

[BigFrank]

How would you know what the shot tastes like? The answer - You wouldn't. BUT the people you served to and practiced with would.
Look at it this way - You aren't tasting every shot you make right? So at some point you trust your technique. If you are lucky enough to be around people who will help you learn technique by giving you feedback (being your taste buds as it were) you could probably learn decent technique without tasting. As I said - you wouldnt be great, but you might be good....

[HB]

If you have reasonably forgiving equipment and careful attention to detail, anyone could pull an acceptable shot by rote instruction. However, I think the tweaks that separate average from very good are too small to make "by eye" or the feedback of others.

[OlywaDave]

Yup... Possible but not probable.

[malachi]

Why would you ever hire someone to be a barista who wasn't interested in (nay... passionate about) coffee?

[HB]

Geoff surely has a better read on the local hiring scene, but I think cafes in this area can't be too choosy about who they hire given the pay scales. If a prospective employee is reliable and honest, they'll get a job. I half jokingly say "The only hope for improving the quality of the typical espresso served in America's cafes lies in super-autos."

[PheasantCreek]

I would not hire them if they were not coffee drinkers. Funny thing is I have consulted folks wanting to open coffee shops that don't drink coffee. My first advice to them is don't bother and find something they are passionate about.

If you hired someone that doesn't drink coffee, how are they going to respond when someone asks about a particular origin of bean? How would they know the shots taste good? How would they answer a customer that is having brewing problems at home? The answer? "I don't know, I don't drink coffee". Well that is just a beautiful answer that conveys to the customer they are in the wrong store buying coffee.

Now some shops sell a multitude of different products such as tea and wine. Shops like this may have folks specialize in one area or another but all should have a good understanding of all. If the shop said they are going to be a coffee shop, then the employees better be coffee drinkers. If the shop is a tobacco shop, then the employees better understand tobacco and the different flavors and origins of tobacco. If the shop is a wine shop then they should know how wine tastes, origins, and food pairings.

Right now I see a plethora of coffee shops that are put together without any business plan, any research, and a lot of money wasted. It is a shame, but I see that across many other small businesses started today and is the chief contributor on why they fail in the first 2 years.