What am I doing wrong? [videos] - Page 6

[ozzyymclaren]

Thanks to everyone at HB. Finally I manage to make a better espresso with your helps. I've ordered beans from Has Bean. I use that beans in this video. They are a week old and it has been 3 days since I opened the package. I'm dosing like 14 or 15 grams. And tamp like 1400 gr. The result is good. Not very very good but the best thing I've ever drink. What you think?
Thanks for everything.

[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7669977795856655378[/gvideo]

[HB]

The result is good. Not very very good but the best thing I've ever drink. What you think?

Thanks for the update. As an aside, I think it's cool that a guy half way around the world can share the preparation behind his morning's cup. In terms of technique, I would dose less. The Cimbali Junior likes a little head space and it looks like the puck would contact the dispersion screen on lock in. Try locking in and removing the portafilter. Is the puck's surface disturbed? A good 2mm of clearance works well.

The extraction started out dark and transitioned quickly to blond, which leads me to suspect a "donut extraction" (perimeter beads first, center much later). A bottomless portafilter would confirm. I would try 1.5 grams less and 1/2 click finer on your Cimbali Junior grinder. Double check your tamp is level (you're canting ever so slightly towards the handle). No comment on the tamp's nutating motion as I've not given it a fair evaluation.

[timo888]

I get very fast pours. Like 15 sec for 1.75 oz. I set the grinder at its finer setting. (O.5 on la cimbali junior grinder) I tamped really hardly, with all of my power.

I haven't read through the end of this saga yet, but my advice for something to try:

When you tamp "with all your power" you are making the coffee almost impermeable. Water always finds the easiest way through....or around...an obstacle (your coffee). When the water goes around the coffee (side-channeling) or seeks out less dense areas in the coffee (pin-hole channeling) the pours will be fast, underextracted...and undrinkable.

So you might try a gentle tamp, just enough to create room between shower-screen and the top of the coffee-cake.

Regards
Timo

P.S. Tare weigh your coffee dose in the filter-basket after the beans are ground, not before, if your grinder retains a few grams in the chute.

[ozzyymclaren]

Thanks Dan. Yes, it is interesting that a guy, makes his espresso from the beans that bought on the internet from UK, with the knowledge from the Home Barista, and share it with them immediately.
Yes maybe a little dosing less gives me better result. The pucks surface isn't disturbed but you are right, its blonding early. I try to make my technique better...

[ozzyymclaren]

When you tamp "with all your power" you are making the coffee almost impermeable. Water always finds the easiest way through....or around...an obstacle (your coffee). When the water goes around the coffee (side-channeling) or seeks out less dense areas in the coffee (pin-hole channeling) the pours will be fast, underextracted...and undrinkable.

So you might try a gentle tamp, just enough to create room between shower-screen and the top of the coffee-cake.

Yes, when i make lighter tamp my shots are improved. and one thing, I must add, when I tamp harder the coffee cake pulls down if I upside down the puck. thanks for all advice...

[TimEggers]

Have you tried a straight down tamp? I don't understand the need of nutating or polishing (although some do). In my opinion you could simplify the tamping a lot by eliminating the unneeded extra steps. But that's a highly subjective comment and you should stick to what you are most comfortable with, I was only thinking that it's best to eliminate any variables that you can and focus on the core processes. This is what I did a couple of weeks ago and while my espresso took a minor step back in quality in time it got better all the while I was using a simple grind, dose then tamp approach. I cut out the clutter and the experience has improved for me, but your results may vary.

Good luck!

[cannonfodder]

You definitely tamped off center, your tamper was tilted toward the portafilter handle.

Are you sure that was 14-15 grams, are you weighing the dose or just guessing. Based on how high your tamper sides were after you tamped, I would guess more like 17g in that basket. Provided the Cimbali double basket is the same as the Faema style double baskets.

I would fine up the grind a little more, say one click or more on the JR, dose a little less so the top edge of the tamper piston side is almost even with the basket top, and go lighter on the tamp. It is important to keep the tamp straight, dose the same, and tamp the same, then just adjust the grind for the correct extraction speed. Don't change too many things at one time, one thing at a time.

You can see me grind/dose/tamp etc... in the last post of the Latte Art Challenge[d] thread. That was a 15g dose.

[ozzyymclaren]

You definitely tamped off center, your tamper was tilted toward the portafilter handle.

yes you are definitely right. I've watched again my video and see all my mistakes. It is more than 14,15 gr. I usually dose like 14, 15 but this time its more i think. so I got F right?

[cannonfodder]

It just takes practice and patience. Most of us have been at it for several years, some several decades. One day it will all come together in that magic moment and you will end up with heaven in a cup.

[Teme]

I'm dosing like 14 or 15 grams. And tamp like 1400 gr. The result is good. Not very very good but the best thing I've ever drink. What you think?

The tamp sounds like its way too light for my liking. A 1400 gram tamping pressure is just lightly touching the puck (considering that your new tamper weighs around 500 grams). I know that the 30 lb that is usually mentioned is just a guideline and that you can potentially get a good shot without any tamping if you get the other variables just so, but I would still recommend trying a heavier tamp.

An effect of the light tamp appears to be that the surface of the puck sits fairly high in the filter basket (at least that's how it appears to be in all of the videos). This would mean that locking in the portafilter results in the shower screen hitting the top of the puck and therefore disrupting its integrity. This would cause channeling. How does the puck look if you lock it into the grouphead and then remove it (i.e. without brewing)?

What happens if you try this:

1) Use the same procedure for grinding and dosing as you have used for your best shot so far, but tamp at 10 kg instead of 1400 grams (you can use a bathroom scale for measuring).

2) If the resulting shot is too slow, loosen the grind a bit for the next shot and try again with the heavier tamp (repeat until you get the right volume in the right time).

3) You can then try and loosen up the grind a bit further, dose a bit more (just 1-2 grams), but make sure that the top of the puck doesn't hit the shower screen. Some people would say that 16 grams in a double basket is updosing, but I do not think so. I think 20 grams in a double is updosing. This naturally also depends on the basket that is used, but I assume that the Cimbali double can easily take 16 grams without hitting the shower screen.

Also, the cooling flushes still look excessively long to me. Is that a half a liter flush I saw in one of the videos? Surely a lot less should be sufficient?

Br,
Teme