Were the various Gaggia Achille problems ever fixed?

[mcomb]

I've read a ton of posts today about the history of the Gaggia Achille. This machine seems to have the right mix of features to meat my needs, but I'm concerned by the many reports of leaks from 2007. There don't seem to be many recent posts about this machine. Where the problems every fixed? If I order a refurbed machine from WLL or Aabree and I still likely to have these issues?

Thanks!
-Mike

[uscfroadie]

Like you I have also looked at this machine, just simply to have a lever. But as you mention, there are numerous reports of problems, and to the best of my knowledge, they have not been addressed/fixed. All of the machines being clearanced are highly likely to be from this same production run. If you buy one, get it from WLL and use their 30-day remorse policy if you have any trouble.

[mcomb]

Hmm, you'd think that after a year the vendors would be checking for the common problems before selling a unit. Has anyone purchased one of these since most of the problem reports in late '07?

[aindfan]

r-gordon-7 and I had some problem reports in June/July '08... the two machines that WLL shipped me (got one, returned due to problems, got a second, same issues) were both built in May 2006 according to the sticker on the bottom of the machine. Those who are happy with the Achille are VERY happy with it. Those of us who returned it are VERY happy with the other lever machines we ended up with. As far as I know, Richard got a (second?) Gaggia Factory (very similar to a Pavoni Europiccola or Professional manual lever) and I went with a Ponte Vecchio Lusso.

The problem report threads: Richard's is here and mine is here.

Best of luck with your decision on this machine. Of course, you're welcome to join the Ponte Vecchio crowd of home baristas who wake up and drink effortlessly delicious coffee every day.

[r-gordon-7]

Just to underscore, from my perspective everything Dan has said is absolutely correct. In addition, in the few months since I sent my refurb Achille back to WLL and received in its place my refurb Gaggia Factory, it appears the price of the Achille (from WLL as new or as refurb, and from other sources as well) has come way down. This leads me to believe:

1. The problems probably persist.

2. For someone willing to "roll the dice", the Achille may now represent a somewhat better value than before, assuming you receive one that works and doesn't leak - and assuming you are ultimately satisfied with the intrinsic build quality and related issues. (As Dan notes, some folks have indeed been VERY happy with theirs.)

As also noted, if you get one from WLL, their 30 day return policy gives you the chance to "test your luck" at the probable risk of no more than the cost of shipping (which cost they typically waive if the return is due to actual defect as distinguished from mere personal dissatisfaction...)

Another possibility - you might want to contact WLL to see if they happen to have a refurb Gaggia Factory on hand. As Dan notes, it is essentially the same machine as the Pavoni Europiccola or Professional manual lever, with the addition of a decorative conical chrome "hat". When WLL has had them, their price for them has been quite remarkable. (And they have had them as refurbs without showing them on their website.) I remain extremely happy with both of mine - one refurb, one n.o.s. closeout.

r-gordon-7

[mcomb]

Thanks for the info guys. I think I'll send WLL an email to see what they have to say about these machines. So there are people on this site that have had the Achille for an extended period of time and are happy with it? It seems like there are more complaints than anything else.

[HB]

Feel free to mention in your e-mail that they are welcome to respond directly in this thread. The price drop was certainly welcome and the two year warranty tells me they want to reassure potential buyers. Time will tell...

[CoffeeOwl]

Greetings from the the other side of the big water!

I think the suspicions of reason for price drop of Achilles in US are correct. In Poland there were quite a few prices changes of these machines this year: when I first checked I found a huge discount - from nearly 4000PLN to below 2000PLN and I immediately thought that a new production run with all the bugs fixed is going on while they're trying to sell the remains of the previous one. But then I was suprised to see that the prices rose to nearly 3000PLN (and this is where they are now).

If someone worked on Achille a bit more, it would be really amazing stuff - I mean if there were no leaks and no aluminum parts... and the passus of water similar to all levers (that last is for peacecup )

[mcomb]

So I sent the following questions off to both WLL and Aabree Coffee...

Hi, I'm interested in the reconditioned Gaggia Achille that you guys
have posted on your site. However, in researching these machines it
seems that there are two very common problems:

1. Water leaking from an o-ring in the lever pump
2. Steam valves that don't fully close

Can you comment on if these refurbished items have undergone any
repairs to keep these two issues from happening and what your return
policy would be should either problem happen?

Both provided a courteous and relatively quick response, but didn't confirm if these really are common issues of if anything had been done to these specific machines as a repair.

From Aabree:

The refurbished machines we sell are thoroughly tested, and (if needed) have updated parts installed. There is a 6 month warranty on our refurbished models (1/2 of the manufacturer's warranty), so you have no need to worry.

From WLL:

The main thing with these actually is shipping damage to the site glass. But that's a relatively easy fix, and has nothing to do with the actual functionality of the machine(well, once the glass is replaced...it's not functional with a broken glass, as it's part of where the machine makes it's pressure).

As to the points you bring up, I've never heard of these problems on any major amount of machines. There was one that was another shipping damage, where it actually was dropped so heard by UPS it knocked the piston out of whack, but again, not like what you say.

As to if these things happen, if under warranty, we would repair the machine. You would only be responsible for shipping the machine in to us. If DOA, we would bring the machine in and exchange it out for you. When we deal directly, we have a 15 day buyer's remorse return policy, if the machine isn't what you were expecting, or just not for you. Ebay purchases are final sales, but warrantied, and we would exchange DOAs as I mentioned above. We do also offer a 6 month extension for warranties on reconditioned machines, $30 for the Achille. It's only extendable once, and at the point of purchase, not at a later date.

Unfortunately this does not really bring me any closer to making a decision than I was before.
-Mike

[da gino]

So I sent the following questions off to both WLL and Aabree Coffee...

Aren't those just two different names for the same company (they seem to have the same mailing address)?

[mcomb]

Aren't those just two different names for the same company (they seem to have the same mailing address)?

Huh, I hadn't noticed that. Explains why their policies and prices are so similar!

[telboy99]

After having returned three machines to Gaggia and experiencing most of the leakage problems reported in these forums I believe I have now resolved the most serious of them ie the failure of the cylinder seal ( parts list item 16 ) to my satisfaction at least .
Here are some hints following at least half a dozen disassemblies and reassemblies I conducted after Gaggia failed to resolve the problems for me.
1. Cylinder seal leakage.
Remove the small burr left by the moulding process on the smaller diameter at the top of the cylinder (17) ( on which the seal sits ) with a fine file.
Clean the 'O' ring seal and the top outside of the cylinder but do not lubricate.
Assemble the seal onto the smaller diameter at the top of the cylinder.
IMPORTANT - locate the seal halfway up this diameter and parallel to the top.
Push the piston to the top of the upper chamber (35).
Gently offer up the cylinder to the piston and push to absorb the piston head and seat the 'O' ring . There is an annular recess near the roof of the chamber and unless the 'O'ring sits in this the leaks are likely to occur. As the cylinder with seal fitted is pushed home one can feel the seal 'roll' (not if it is lubricated ) and drop into the annular ring.
2. Reassemble the top and bottom chambers and loosely fit the holding bolt (51). Assemble the two non-return valves to their respective inlet/outlet pipes on the boiler.The plastic valves fit one way only : the longer end into the spring the other shorter and smaller diameter end with the double 'O' ring , into the pipe/cylinder.
Take the chamber assembly to the boiler and by peering into the chamber as it closes with the boiler, line up the valve /spring assemblies so that they enter the appropriate orifices in the pipes and carefully push the chamber assembly home . There will be some resistance as the seals on the boiler pipes add friction and manufacturing tolerances are taken up. Assemble the four lock-nuts and tighten the bolt (51 )
3. After testing all OK fit the outer casing as follows:
Assemble filling cap to boiler
This should leave just enough room to tilt the top plastic moulding to accommodate the top of the rear panel
after first having located the bottom edge in the scalloped moulding at the base.
Holding the panel just fitted in a full handed grip take one of the smaller panels and manoeuvering the plastic moulding in a similar way , assemble the bottom and then the top .Finally do the same for the remaining panel by which time the top is held in a two handed grip as the parts come together. Depending on the tolerances it may be necessary to make room at the top but with control, by part assembling the two retaining screws (33).
4 The shorting resulting in the household RCB tripping , was caused by leaking water running down the outside into the mains connector cavity.

Good luck!