Water from Anita's HX not very hot, despite pressure being set at 1.25 BAR

[quar]

Hi All,

Need some help figuring this one out....Descaled my Anita last week. Everything was fine until shortly after the first flush to rinse. After refilling the boiler and letting it come up to temp, I noticed that the pressure was spiking into the red zone of the pressure gauge. Shut it down and figured that the pressure stat was shot. It was over two years old, so I figured it was well past it's lifetime. Replaced it and everything seems OK. Set the boiler pressure back to 1.25 BAR and fired it up. After coming up to temp, everything looked OK, but the steam volume seemed to be a little low. Just figured that I was being somewhat over sensitive since I just repaired it. Finally had the chance to pull a shot today and there was no water dance. Let it recover for a couple minutes and tested water temp with an instant read thermometer and a chopped down styrofoam cup. Highest reading was ~190 deg F.

I'm assuming that boiler pressure gauge is off. Could descaling cause this? If so, how do I fix it? (other than replacing the gauge) Any other ideas on what the problem could be?

Mike

[Ken Fox]

Hi All,

Need some help figuring this one out....Descaled my Anita last week. Everything was fine until shortly after the first flush to rinse. After refilling the boiler and letting it come up to temp, I noticed that the pressure was spiking into the red zone of the pressure gauge. Shut it down and figured that the pressure stat was shot. It was over two years old, so I figured it was well past it's lifetime. Replaced it and everything seems OK. Set the boiler pressure back to 1.25 BAR and fired it up. After coming up to temp, everything looked OK, but the steam volume seemed to be a little low. Just figured that I was being somewhat over sensitive since I just repaired it. Finally had the chance to pull a shot today and there was no water dance. Let it recover for a couple minutes and tested water temp with an instant read thermometer and a chopped down styrofoam cup. Highest reading was ~190 deg F.

I'm assuming that boiler pressure gauge is off. Could descaling cause this? If so, how do I fix it? (other than replacing the gauge) Any other ideas on what the problem could be?

Mike

Your vacuum breaker (false pressure valve) needs to be replaced.

You can confirm this by opening up the water wand or steam wand and you will get a rush of air, and the boiler pressure gauge on the front of your machine will plummet immediately.

The pstat you replaced is probably good and could be reused later.

ken

[quar]

Hi Ken,

Good idea, but I replaced the vacuum breaker at the same time as the pressure stat. It's not sticking, nor does opening the steam value produce the plummet in pressure as one would expect if it was.

I do agree that the pressure stat that I replaced was probably OK. I'm wondering if something could just be causing the gauge to be reading low. When I thought the pressure was spiking, it was probably just reading low. (if that's possible)

Now that I think about it, with the machine cold, the gauge is sitting at .5 BAR. Don't remember if it used to sit there or not. Any other Quickmill owners want to chime in?

Mike

[Ken Fox]

Hi Ken,

Good idea, but I replaced the vacuum breaker at the same time as the pressure stat. It's not sticking, nor does opening the steam value produce the plummet in pressure as one would expect if it was.

I do agree that the pressure stat that I replaced was probably OK. I'm wondering if something could just be causing the gauge to be reading low. When I thought the pressure was spiking, it was probably just reading low. (if that's possible)

Now that I think about it, with the machine cold, the gauge is sitting at .5 BAR. Don't remember if it used to sit there or not. Any other Quickmill owners want to chime in?

Mike

You could have an airlock or something blocking the thin brass tube that goes from the boiler to the front panel pressure gauge. If you drain the boiler you can remove the fittings (and the gauge), then inspect and clean them.

You should (if you haven't already) hang around the machine when it heats up the next time. If it is functioning normally, you will hear the water begin to boil in the boiler, the sound of air being pushed out the vacuum breaker, and then you will hear the vacuum breaker "seat" which will stop the hissing sound of the air going out through it.

If you hear no hissing sound, then the water is not getting up to the boiling point. This can be caused by a sticking vacuum breaker (creating "false pressure") with air trapped in the boiler, as I mentioned before. Or, the pstat could simply be set too low.

When you combine having cooler water coming out the brew head with a front panel gauge looking to be abnormally high, then a failed vacuum breaker is going to be the cause most of the time. Other possibilities include some grunge or an airlock in the brass tubing from the boiler to the front panel gauge, coupled with a pstat or element problem. So I guess there could be a 3rd possibility, a failing heating element.

I think I have covered the likely possibilities, which I don't think would be any different on an Anita than on other HX design machines. The FPG should NOT show 0.5 bar pressure when the machine is cold, which would support the idea of there being something in the line to the gauge. But then we have to assume two problems, e.g. FPG copper line occluded PLUS pstat set too low (or failing element).

ken
p.s. I have had cheap vacuum breakers that did not work right from the moment I installed them, so that could still be the culprit and the proof would be the absence of air/steam escaping from the vacuum breaker with its hissing sound when you heat up the machine.

[quar]

I figure that it's the gauge. I really didn't want to have to disconnect it. The capillary tube feels rather fragile. I'm wondering if a chunk of scale got washed into it when I was descaling.

I'm 100 percent certain that the vac breaker is OK. I've confirmed it's operation visually and today by ear. The machine is coming up to a high enough pressure to pressurize and seal the breaker, but I'm assuming that the gauge is reading somewhere around .5 BAR high, my stat is simply too low.

Mike

[HB]

...I'm assuming that the gauge is reading somewhere around .5 BAR high, my stat is simply too low.

You could verify with a gauge hooked to the steam arm. I've read reports of Expobar owners jury rigging a temporary boiler pressure gauge with two hose clamps, a length of heavy duty rubber brake hose, and a tire gauge. You probably have most of the required parts in your garage. If not, it's less than $10 in parts at your local auto store. Needless to say it's a kludge, but works.

[Ken Fox]

I figure that it's the gauge. I really didn't want to have to disconnect it. The capillary tube feels rather fragile. I'm wondering if a chunk of scale got washed into it when I was descaling.

I'm 100 percent certain that the vac breaker is OK. I've confirmed it's operation visually and today by ear. The machine is coming up to a high enough pressure to pressurize and seal the breaker, but I'm assuming that the gauge is reading somewhere around .5 BAR high, my stat is simply too low.

Mike

You could do as Dan suggests, which, assuming that your tire gauge has markings in bar, and is accurate, might answer the question. Still, in the end, you are going to want to have a functioning front panel gauge.

Why not call your dealer's service dept. and see if they have necessary repair parts should you damage something when you remove, clean, then reinstall the piping to the FPG? As fragile as some of this stuff appears at first glance, it is designed to be worked on since things do get clogged or broken. Copper piping (I'm assuming that is what it is) is flexible and if you are careful you are unlikely to permanently damage it. If you do, it should be a cheap part, far cheaper than having someone else service the machine. If you bend the copper a little in the process, you can almost certainly bend it back without much risk of damage.

Although people do damge their machines by working on them, it is necessary to work on them from time to time, and most of the time it will work out.

ken

[quar]

Looks like it was the gauge...Pulled it off this afternoon and even while disconnected, it's still showing .5 BAR. Assume that it's gotten scale or something stuck within it. It's soaking in hot descaler, but I figure that it's due to be replaced. Just didn't want to spend $50 something for the replacement...

Mike

[erics]

Any sort of scale buildup or deposition in the gage line would not affect the gage reading unless of course there was a complete blockage and that result would be an inoperative gage.

If you look real close at Anita's boiler gage, you'll notice a stop pin for the pointer at the 0 bar mark. Should this gage be inadverntly subjected to a vacuum, it would not be unreasonable for the pointer to "jam" against that pin while the gage needle's shaft continues to rotate in the vacuum direction. Now the only way this could happen would be if your vacuum breaker (old one) were stuck closed. The gage would then indicate some positive pressure (0.5 bar ?) as the system eventually leaked down to 0 psig.

Without a special puller for the gage's needle, removing and resetting can be a little tricky - go slow and gentle - but this would save you some $ and might be worth a try. Heating the needle in some boiling water to temporarily expand the hole a little might help.

[quar]

As much as I would have loved saving the old gauge, it was well and truly broken after I tried getting it apart for a while. In retrospect, the one thing that I didn't try was to unscrew the two halves. Somebody tell me that it wasn't that easy.... Anyway, it was a good stress reliever.


New gauge installed, fired her up and was holding at just over .5 BAR. Turned the p-stat up and things are as to be expected. Back in business.

Used the gauge order as a chance to impulse buy one of the thermometer adapters. BTW, when I buy it from Chris Coffee, is the Coffeekids donation still rolled into the price?

Anyway, did the two minute test as recommended and saw behavior that tracked Eric's plot pretty well. I took about 30 sec longer to hit 198, but I'd been playing with it this AM and probably hadn't fully recovered yet. I've been trying to search for this, but I'm not getting along with the search engine very well today. What's the differential between the thermometer and water at the puck supposed to be? Also, I don't like the wait when flushing down to 185 deg. I used to flush about 2 oz past the water dance and wait 35-40 sec, depending to taste. I'd like to zero in on a better practice. Anybody with a Quickmill machine want to share their routine?

Mike

[erics]

This post has multiple methods described (and graphed):

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...adapter-t5125.html

[quar]

Ah, that's the one that I was looking for!

Thanks!