Vintage Europiccola - pretty, but yikes...

[bainesy]

Hi everyone

I've wanted a lever machine for a while, and had struck out on a couple of ebay bids (a Zerowatt and a MicroCimbali) partly through lack of nerve, when, out of the blue, a charming chap who is also a member of our European coffee forums toomuchcoffee offered, for free, an old La Pavoni Europiccola. I collected it today, and it's beautiful, but it has seen better days (he wanted it to go to a loving home, but had decided he didn't have the inclination to fix it).



To me, and according to the donor, the "guts" of the machine are essentially OK, but the base is shot to pieces, and I don't really fancy connecting it to a power source in the state it's in. So, I'm thinking I should buy a new/replacement base (if you can do that) and put the boiler on to that?



The other thing is that, apparently, the gaskets and seals are a bit old and tired, and, while I'm happy to try to replace them, the right hand bolt attaching the group to the boiler is locked up. The head of the bolt is nearly stripped and might shear off if it's forced - if it does shear off, do you think it would be possible to drill the bolt out without causing terminal damage to the machine?

Lots of questions (sorry)... Does anyone have any idea when the machine might date from, or how I might find out? (the donor thought it might be a 60s model).

Thanks
Bainesy

[espressme]

Hi Bainesy,
Here is an older thread which might get you started!
La Pavoni Europiccola Restoration
Some other folks have been there and will help also!8)

Have Fun!
espressme / richard

[mogogear]

I had a 1966 LP ( the group head was pressed int othe boiler , not bolted on) I am sure you might try Will at Home espresso Repair in Seattle on Phinney St. He fixes lots of old levers and might sell you a base at a good price..

Good luck and welcome

greg

[gaggia1948]

hi - nice little machine. if you buy a new base try to get an old one, because if you put a new style base, it distroys the originality. i have a pavoni with an eagle.
brgds gerry

[bainesy]

Thanks everyone - I've just updated my profile to show that I'm actually in the UK.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to get some parts from Seattle (especially in person...) but I think shipping costs might be prohibitive (we've got an LP agent in London, I just haven't made contact with them yet).

Cheers
Bainesy

[kbuzbee]

Good advice on the parts. As to the bolt... You might try "gently" tapping one of those "gripper" type wrenches with a small hammer.

Cummings Tool

Drilling and retapping it would be pretty tough, IMO.

Ken

[Paul_Pratt]

The other thing is that, apparently, the gaskets and seals are a bit old and tired, and, while I'm happy to try to replace them, the right hand bolt attaching the group to the boiler is locked up. The head of the bolt is nearly stripped and might shear off if it's forced - if it does shear off, do you think it would be possible to drill the bolt out without causing terminal damage to the machine?

Lots of questions (sorry)... Does anyone have any idea when the machine might date from, or how I might find out? (the donor thought it might be a 60s model).

Thanks
Bainesy

Welcome Bainesy,

Have you got a close-up pic of the bolt that is stuck? If the bolt threads into the boiler then you can try mole grips to get a firm hold on it. Also try a blow torch first to get the metals moving. No actually hold that blow torch idea as it might discolour the chrome.

Failing that you can try screw extractors. Failing that you would need to drill and tap which is a real pig.

On an older faema machine I just restored one of the two studs (threaded into the boiler end plate) that hold the heating element into the boiler snapped. I'd say it was 8 hours to get that little sod out. Heat failed, screw extractors snapped off and so I drilled it and tapped it. Not a pleasant thing to do but I got away with it even though my drilling wasn't exactly straight.

Age? what is that 5 77 on the base? May 77 perhaps?

Paul

P.S. I know Aylesbury very well. All my family are from Stony Stratford but I went to school in Wellingborough.

[bainesy]

Thanks everyone - I've been away since the evening I picked the LP up, and have a busy schedule in the foreseeable future, so progress might be slow.
Paul, thanks for the thoughts on the bolt/screw extraction - I'll post a close-up tonight. Apparently the previous owner took the machine to the UK service agents, who were reluctant to extract it because of fear of damage. Still, it's worth persisting (and I might even try the blow-torch option, because on balance a bit of damaged chrome doesn't bother me too much).

(Aylesbury probably hasn't changed much since you were last here, except it now has one of England's top roasters, Charlie Massey at HillandValley - give me a shout if you're ever back in the area...although it's a long way from HK I know...)

I thought the same as you about the "5 77" on the base, and I've seen a couple of 70s machines which look identical, so I think the previous owner might have been mistaken about it being from the 60s.

[espressme]

Thanks everyone - I've been away since the evening I picked the LP up, and have a busy schedule in the foreseeable future, so progress might be slow....snip...
Paul, thanks for the thoughts on the bolt/screw extraction - I'll post a close-up tonight. Apparently the previous owner took the machine to the UK service agents, who were reluctant to extract it because of fear of damage. Still, it's worth persisting (and I might even try the blow-torch option, because on balance a bit of damaged chrome doesn't bother me too much).

Hello bainesy,
I have done quite a few bolt nut extractions over the years and found these possibilities:

Penetrating oil applied and left in place for a week. necessary!! ( in this case boiling water poured into the boiler a few times over the week would allow the oil to penetrate better. and as Paul said" get the metals moving")
Lightly torquing the fastener a bit tighter before un-tightening will often break the crud free. A back and forth torquing helps!
Even applying torque over a longer period of time will often release the stick. Now you know how the better half unsticks jar lids you can't!
Applying unscrewing torque while tapping the end of the nut driver or socket lightly with a SMALL hammer, sharp vibration is the key here.
Application of a LARGE Hot electric soldering copper to the fastener then applying torque, gives less collateral damage than the blow torch method.

Wee tiddly bits are 'fasten'ating!
Enjoy!
richard / espressme
I hope we are not separated by a common language

[bainesy]

Have you got a close-up pic of the bolt that is stuck?

Here it is, not a great pic (from my phone) but you get an idea how stripped it is (although I can see a couple of angles where I can still get a grip).



I've just got in for the evening (midnight in the UK) and have an early start tomorrow, so I haven't had any chance to try any of the suggestions yet, but I'm really grateful to everyone esp. Richard and Paul for their help.

Cheers
Bainesy

p.s. Richard, I think I understand all your strange lingo but maybe our nations should adopt some kind of standardised spelling?

[mogogear]

I'm sure the inclined party will re-recommend the penetrating fluid for you to use... but I would just get a good pair of vise-grip type pliers after you have let the P-fluid work for a couple of days. Clamp on, and as Richard suggested tap once or twice in the "tighten" direction and then smartly yank in the "loosen" direction. 50 / 50 - Bolt loosens or .........

But as opposed to my friend, Espressme, Richardo, I would apply available heat to the outside of the area where the bolt is lodged ( boiler housing or flange) instead of to the bolt head. I should think you would want the threaded "female" hole to expand ever so slightly. If the bolt expanded - it would defeat the purpose of applying heat.

Stiff upper lip and all that..

[espressme]

I'm sure the inclined party will re-recommend the penetrating fluid for you to use... but I would just get a good pair of vise-grip type pliers after you have let the P-fluid work for a couple of days. Clamp on, and as Richard suggested tap once or twice in the "tighten" direction and then smartly yank in the "loosen" direction. 50 / 50 - Bolt loosens or .........
But as opposed to my friend, Espressme, Richardo, I would apply available heat to the outside of the area where the bolt is lodged ( boiler housing or flange) instead of to the bolt head. I should think you would want the threaded "female" hole to expand ever so slightly. If the bolt expanded - it would defeat the purpose of applying heat.
Stiff upper lip and all that..

Hi Mo!
Hydrocarbon penetrating oil. That will remove with a wash / boil-out, but some synthetics are absorbed and will not come out, but leach almost forever. Citrus products do work on occasion. Remember that the stronger citrics extracted are made by the plant to kill bugs. That is according to my OSHA HazMat teacher. Citric acid is as far as I will go even for pot cleaning.

I second the vise grips. They need to be real snug! Just locking them may break the bolt free due to the sharp snap of the locking being directly transmitted to the crud. It has happened to me.

I suggest placing a strong anti-clockwise torque pressure onto the fastener head using the vise grips and then, with a small hammer / bolt / couple of ounce metal piece,.... sharply rap the plier jaws at the fastener head a few times. I would also suggest removing the steam wasnd if yu have not yet done so. That allows more control of the actions.

I should think you would want the threaded "female" hole to expand ever so slightly. If the bolt expanded - it would defeat the purpose of applying heat.

I look at the possibility that the bolt expands and crushes the goop. then it contracts and sucks in more lube.

Perhaps Alchemist can tell us whether a hole gets smaller or larger with heat in a localized area. Huh,Huh,Huh?????? I've had this discussion with engineers before.. They too are undecided. But, they specify tolerances that allow the hole to contract with heat anyway.

Goodnight all
richard / espressme

[sneakymagic]

Hi there,
that's quite some set of pics!

I can heartily recommend http://www.espressoservices.co.uk based in Stirling: I shipped my Europiccola to them for an overhaul and they were extremely helpful. They carry enormous amounts of parts, and are happy to help over the phone. I'm not associated with them, before anyone asks - they are in fact a rival supplier of one of my own product lines!

Hope that helps,
Peter