Videos of espresso extractions - Page 3

[LeoZ]

my 3 part addition to this thread..

First is my old krups machine, with 'not fresh' beans, and ground a few days prior at the store where i used to buy them. boy have i come a long way!

i troubleshot the terrible extraction to be from stale beans.

i dont have a good vid cam, so these are all from my camera, no sound either :/

[LeoZ]

next, we have the same old machine, with a new (tranquilo) grinder, and fresh beans.

when people say get a grinder before a machine, they are not kidding!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtkcwdIKmDI[/youtube]

[LeoZ]

and finally, the newer machine, (a giotto premium, about 2 months old) with the new grinder (the new quickmill model), and a new triple basket and bottomless PF. lots aof variables! This was not only my first shot out of a naked pf, but also with a triple basket! its near perfect as far as timing, but there were some bubbles in the crema, and it did blond a bit quick. all i can think of is that the beans are fairly old, about 3 weeks, and were frozen for about a week. fyi - this is a vivace dolce bean

the good news, all my worrying was pointless, my obscure distribution and tamping technique seems to work, especially since ive had better looking dry pucks, so i didnt expect the best pull

[the_deal_maker]

Just FYI, no more comment on the Dalla Corte at this time:



I used about 9gr of a wood fire boasted blend from a small roastery based in Venetian.

Best,
- Malte

[edwa]

... merged from espresso estraction by moderator...



A couple of days ago I received my newly purchased bottomless PF and Mazzer Mini. Very soon after I stopped using the 3 cup basket as the repeated tastings were making me shake The 2 cup LM basket seems to work fine.

What I soon discovered, besides how much improvement my technique needed, was that in order to really judge a pull I needed to video it. Talk about another can of beans! It took me 4 attempts to figure out how to properly light it. Then it was that I forgot to one thing in the sequence of videoing or one thing in the sequence of Silvia prep.

All the while trying to adjust to the new grinder and PF.

Excuses aside, I've registered with google video and at present their server is having trouble uploading the clip. I'll try again tonight to post the first usable clip that doesn't have a camera bump or a missed beginning, etc, etc.

The shot itself is not so good. I've gotten little momentary jets now and then. The first pulls before video taping were the best, of course. But at least the only direction is up.

For now, here's a photo of the lighting setup which unfortunately makes access to the Silvia a little difficult.

[edwa]

Let see if this comes through...

[edwa]

Dan, thanks for posting the clip in the right thread. Its nice to see how it came out.

I see I should shoot it tighter and maybe I'll get some better focus. Perhaps a touch less light and then I can concentrate on getting a good extraction.

If this had a mid-basket fill, stirring and gentle PF tap on a rubber mat followed by a full fill, stirring, settling tap, gentle ...uh motion that resembles coin wobbling to stop, followed by 32 lbs (on a scale) tamp.

Should I make the grind a touch finer or first go for the finger press before the settling coin movement.

After, that is, I have a good laugh at myself.

[HB]

Nice job lighting the underside of the group. How much wattage are those small lights?

As for the video, let's take a closer look. Keep in mind that this thread is about diagnosing problems, so I've excerpted several key frames for easier reference. The trouble begins early in the extraction:



A full stream has already formed near the handle and beading has only begun elsewhere. Channeling near the front is typically due to uneven distribution as you unconsciously "work around" the handle. It can also be caused by an aggressive lock-in as the group slices the top of the puck, but based on the speed of the development near the front, I'll bet on uneven distribution.

Later we witness other evidence of problems:



It's difficult to see the thin line in this individual frame, but in the video it's easy to spot at least 2-3 distinct fine-mist sprays. This could be side-channeling due to loss of puck-basket adhesion or again uneven distribution opening up small fissures. The white backdrop also shows signs of spattering. In a proper bottomless extraction, there is no overspray.

Finally, I'll zoom on this last frame to point to another sign of an uneven extraction:



Some color variation is expected and desirable ("tiger striping"), but this blond streak has the look of a localized loss of puck integrity. Though it doesn't show up until later in the video, colors twisting like a barber pole are another sign of channeling / uneven extraction. In some cases the fissures are bad enough that the stream shape itself will twist (not just its colors). It is hard to judge given the lighting of the video, but it looks like serious blonding began around the video's 19 second mark.

As you've read in your other thread, Silvia has a reputation for being finicky:

I'm no expert on the Silvia; I just got a pair in order to set up an espresso tasting lab. From what I can see so far, the machines have a huge tendency to center channel and underextract the basket edges, at least when using my usual dosing and tamping techniques which are designed to prevent side channeling (the much more common problem on E61s and the Elektra). The result so far has been distinctly inferior tasting shots, both for flavor and for mouthfeel.

I'm pretty sure one can compensate for this by modifying ones ritual or blocking some holes in the middle of the shower screen; but there's no doubt that going to an E61 or other machine with a well engineered group is a good sized step up in terms of everyday, gyration free consistency.

That said, you can absolutely pull good shots on Silvia, but she's a harsh mistress. I recommend starting with the WDT to cure the distribution problem and reviewing the Troubleshooting Checklist of Perfecting the Naked Extraction.

[cannonfodder]

Give this a try...



That is more like a 60lb tamp. If you use 30 or 70 pounds, the key is be consistent.

[LeoZ]

im a fan of the twist n tamp. i do a light tamp with 'nutation', then a hard, 30-40lb tamp, with a twist.

anyone else?

[Ozark_61]

When I did a twist with any pressure on it, which I had done prior to going crotchless, I had lots of channeling. I also see the 'whack-a-mole' is popular.. JonR10 wasn't a fan and I had better pours when I quit (his porn was king!) - but just goes to show you YMMV.

[cannonfodder]

There is much more to espresso than how well it photographs. While a pretty shot usually indicates that you are doing it correct, what matters is how it tastes.

I can put a BMW emblem on a Pinto and give it some good paint, but it is still a Pinto.

Try different techniques. Technique varies from machine to machine. I have 3 and do things just a little different between them.

Take a look at the Tamp and Dose Techniques Digest for other ways to smash coffee.

[OkcEspresso]

A full stream has already formed near the handle and beading has only begun elsewhere. Channeling near the front is typically due to uneven distribution as you unconsciously "work around" the handle. It can also be caused by an aggressive lock-in as the group slices the top of the puck, but based on the speed of the development near the front, I'll bet on uneven distribution.

Can you explain the "work around" concept a bit more? And, what is the solution for this problem?

Thanks,

Chris

[HB]

Maybe it's the lighting, maybe it's the protruding handle, but for whatever reason, learning baristas often "front load" the far side of the portafilter and leave a "divot" near the handle. They'll compound the problem by settling the grounds (tap tap) with a lopsided pile, which results in higher density at the far side because the deeper sections settle more.

The WDT is a sure-fire solution. Otherwise dosing while rotating the portafilter and assuring the depth of grounds is uniform before settling is the next best thing. It also helps to have a clump-free grinder (which despite its well-deserved reputation, the Mazzer Mini is not).

[OkcEspresso]

Maybe it's the lighting, maybe it's the protruding handle, but for whatever reason, learning baristas often "front load" the far side of the portafilter and leave a "divot" near the handle. They'll compound the problem by settling the grounds (tap tap) with a lopsided pile, which results in higher density at the far side because the deeper sections settle more.

The WDT is a sure-fire solution. Otherwise dosing while rotating the portafilter and assuring the depth of grounds is uniform before settling is the next best thing. It also helps to have a clump-free grinder (which despite its well-deserved reputation, the Mazzer Mini is not).

Sounds about right. Thank you.

[edwa]

It also helps to have a clump-free grinder (which despite its well-deserved reputation, the Mazzer Mini is not).

What are some clump-free grinders?

[cannonfodder]

The only real clump free grinder I know of is the Versalab M3.

A doser will help break up clumps as you work the lever. The larger grinders, or should I say larger burr size grinders grind faster and eject the grinds from the grind chute. The small units extrude the grinds from chute which causes massive clumping. The burrs also get hot while grinding which also adds to the clumping problem (IMHO).

[HB]

Pros have tried and largely rejected the WDT, I believe because they're in tune with speedily thwacking the doser handle, rotating the portafilter while dosing, and have (nearly?) clump-free grinders like a Robur. The Versalab M3 is off my wishlist and the leading contender is the Mazzer Kony thanks to unflinching recommendations from the likes of Greg Scace and Nick Cho. I hesitate because (a) it's a lot of money, and (b) the darn cabinet height...

[jesawdy]

(b) the darn cabinet height...

Warning - Off Topic - Dan, I thought you had the green light for a dedicated espresso bar in the house or basement? Cabinet heights be damned, no?

Back On Topic - As Dan, mentioned speedily thwacking the doser is a good technique, and I wish I had realized this early, I think I would have avoided a doserless grinder purchase to start out.

[cannonfodder]

I have been wondering about the Mazzer and MACAP conical grinders. There seems to be a lot of buzz lately in regard to conical grinders. Even though they use conical burrs, don't the grinds still have to make a right angle turn to exit into the doser? That would still produce clumping and I would imagine there is little difference between the Major and Kony in regard to clumping because of that. Having put hands on a M3, it is off my 'dream team' list as well.

Will the madness ever end? I had a toy machine and Gaggia grinder and lusted after a Mini and Isomac, got the Mini and Isomac then wanted a lever machine. So I got one. Then my thoughts turned toward a La Cimbali Jr grinder and commercial machine. So I got my Cimbali and rebuilt a two group. Now I look at the likes of the Kony and La Marzocco and lust after them.

I have to keep asking myself, would the equipment make me a better home-Barista, would my shots really be $7K better if I had them. Probably not, a little better yes, but divorce court better, no.

I should just go work for Chris Coffee or Espresso Parts and let them keep my pay check.