Videos of espresso extractions - Page 9

[hbuchtel]

With the same tamping technique (this time with the WDT) I got the same donut beginning on the Presso-

If there are any suggestions about how to deal with this I would very much appreciate it!



The Presso basket-



Henry

[DC]

Hi,

Looking at your post count you may well know all this already, so apologies in advance if you do

If you're still getting donuts with the WDT then there are only two things I can think of that might be causing it. First is that for whatever reason your distribution is getting more coffee in the center of the basket than at the edges, or the puck is denser there restricting the flow and forcing it to go through the edges. Is there anything that might be causing this?

Second, as several pours have started at the edges before the center has even begun it suggests to me that your puck isn't properly adhered to the basket. Are you knocking the basket after tamping to remove loose grounds? If so, don't do it. It isn't necessary to remove loose grounds and increases the chances of you breaking the seal between your coffee and the basket. Take care during lock-in so that you don't knock the pf too hard.

What tamping style are you using? If you have a flat tamper, try a gentle nutating (like a settling coin) tamp, followed by your usual straight-down tamp (no knocking the pf!) - that has worked wonders for me.

Finally, a question to you and Tim - what do these shots taste like? from your videos they look very short and take a long time. I had a play with shorter shots recently but I found them to be very sickly.

Hope this helps,

[jesawdy]

The donut is very much there...

I'm thinking my problem might be with the Presso basket and its ridge. I use two tampers, one plastic 53mm and one Thor 49mm. The 53mm takes the coffee to the ridge and I finish with the 49mm.

Henry-

Can you just use the 49mm tamper and do a four corner tamp? It's not ideal, but you can tamp the center and then NSEW, all equal tamp pressures and see if the donut doesn't improve...

Another thing you can try is a finer grind and down dose and maybe a lighter tamp, these sort of pucks seem to be self healing... course I think you are already pretty down dosed if you are at 11-12g.

'Course if it tastes fine, I wouldn't really sweat the details too much.

[TimEggers]

Finally, a question to you and Tim - what do these shots taste like? from your videos they look very short and take a long time. I had a play with shorter shots recently but I found them to be very sickly.

I have discovered it's important to watch the extraction more so than the volume. Sure there are limits to every rule, but my espresso got better when I put away the measuring glass and timer.

My shots are full heavy bodied with an enhanced sweetness. In the doubles I find great chocolate notes. Very tasty!

[Presso]

With the same tamping technique (this time with the WDT) I got the same donut beginning on the Presso-

If there are any suggestions about how to deal with this I would very much appreciate it!



The Presso basket-

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Henry

Hi Henry,

There is a fellow in Australia who custom grinds tampers for the PRESSO, you can't get one right now but they will be on our site during may 07.

Cheers,

Cameron

[hbuchtel]

Jeff, the NSEW with the 49mm seems to help, I'm looking forward to trying it a couple more times! I'm doing the 4 directions tamp quite heavily, so much so that I can feel the puck shift as I do it... too hard? Too much of an angle?

I was doing 8g very fine grind shots, they extracted very evenly and seemed to tolerate a lighter blond color but they were very fast- 15sec of flow at the most. I'm trying for something more normal...

DC, thanks for your suggestions, I'll be trying the nutating tamp after I get a grip on the NSEW one.

Hey Cameron, I'm pretty happy with my Thor tamper (Les of Thor Tampers also owns a Presso), is the one you are using convex or flat?

Taste- great! Compared to how they tasted before! I'm getting dark chocolate on the slower shots.

Henry

[hbuchtel]

Wow! Tightened up the grind a bit, 12 grams, WDT and NSEW with the 49mm tamper- definite improvement in the beginning extraction!

There was a different quality to the taste, words are not coming to mind... how about "Good"? "Gooder?" "Goodlier?".



HB's Diagnostics Team strikes again

Henry

[DC]

Looking good!

Did the puck shift that time? I would guess it didn't, and that might have been causing your problems last time

[TimEggers]

Henry,

Looking better, keep at it. Espresso is a journey, have fun and keep up the great work. I hope you'll keep posting videos of your progress. It's fun to share in the triumph of fellow home baristas!

Good job!

[Presso]

Better! That's an understatement. It's poetry Henry.

My tamper is flat, I've read the concave/convex debate and decided to be a fence sitter.

[hbuchtel]

After a frustrating week trying to replicate my first success with the NSEW tamp, I've gone back to 8 gram doses like in the following video.

Anybody else doing this? If so I'd like to hear what shot times you are getting/expect.

Also... feel free to be critical! Yes, I think it tasted good, but I don't have much (one shot in Paul Pratt's workshop 2 years ago) to compare it to!





Cameron- Poetry? Hmph! You damn me with faint praise...

Henry

[frege]

This is with my Brasilia Lady- decent looking shot, Hines espresso blend, but the Lady has boiler issues (being diagnosed) so this was not hot enough and sour. I also wanted to highlight my Muti 5.5 oz cappo cup, which I was sold on when the saleslady at the Muti store in Toronto told me it was "10% off!"- problem is, that was 10% off a hundred bucks (yes, a hundred Canadian for one cup and one saucer, but I felt like treating myself on that trip).

[TimEggers]

This is with my Brasilia Lady- decent looking shot, Hines espresso blend, but the Lady has boiler issues (being diagnosed) so this was not hot enough and sour. I also wanted to highlight my Muti 5.5 oz cappo cup, which I was sold on when the saleslady at the Muti store in Toronto told me it was "10% off!"- problem is, that was 10% off a hundred bucks (yes, a hundred Canadian for one cup and one saucer, but I felt like treating myself on that trip).

Hey not to bad at all! Try a slightly finer grind, the espresso appears pretty quickly and before the pump reaches it's full load pressure. Ideally when you flip the brew switch the pump will be noisy, and then as the pressure builds above the puck the pump will become quieter. It's not for a few seconds after this that the espresso should begin to bead across your basket. Take a look at my video and listen to the pump and watch for the espresso (this could be part of your sour problem too):



Good Luck and thanks for sharing, I hope you'll keep us posted!

[TimEggers]

Here is an average (for me) pull on my baby girl (Quickmill Anita). Ok, my non-human living breathing baby girl (but I digress). The beans are Espresso Monkey Blend about 14 days old. Tasted great, but on its way to staledom. Enjoy!



The shot ran long because I was watching the camera and lost track of the shot. Oops!

[Beezer]

Lookin' good Tim!

I'm still getting some channeling on my shots. They start out well, but then I get the twister cone of death and early blonding. I'm using the WDT, nutating motion followed by a firm tamp. Beans are 1 week old Ecco Cafe Daterra.

I'll try to post a video later.

[TimEggers]

I've been experimenting with a simpler approach now I am only grinding, dosing, leveling and tamping. A back-to-basics approach if you will. As long as I thwack the doser while grinding I don't see very much clumping and the shots taste excellent. Yesterday I pulled three shots back to back to see if I could be consistent in my new technique. I was dialing in the new blend (Greenline) and the first two shots are a little fast and the first one I let run a little too long. The last one is what I would consider a decent double shot. Take a look:

[DC]

Hello Tim,

Was this inspired by the recent WDT debate thread?

I would say that in all three of those videos your pours started less evenly than in your typical video posts. Do you think you have achieved consistency with the new technique and how does it compare to your old (any taste differences?)?

Another thing I wanted to ask you.... it may just be the videos but it looks to me as if you stop the shots early (at least compared to me)... there still seems to be a lot of striping in the pours? Any reason for this or were they actually at/near the blonding point and I just can't see it ?

Nice shots, they look tasty! (I'm on an espresso hiatus, I was having trouble getting decent shots so had a few days off and switched to french press )

[TimEggers]

Hello Dave,

Yes I can say that the WDT debate did influence me to try new things. I like to experiment anyways and it seemed like the great chance too.

It's funny like you have the said the pours do look different and don't always start as even. In the cup however these shots just as good and some even better than before. I'm beginning to believe that perhaps the visual cues of a super even start may not be the be-all-end-all in the cup. The flavor and body are on par with my WDT shots. Oddly the body seems a little different too (most likely due to the different flow characteristics). Not better but not worse, just something I noticed. My WDT shots at times seemed a little more "grainy" across my tongue. The new shots seem cleaner (when I get a decent pull). I still have more experimentation to do that's for sure. I'm also using my cheap $10 convex tamper (my flat tamper does not like this new routine) and not doing a rotating polish (just a light tamping polish of less than 1 or 2 pounds pressure).

As far as stopping the shots in person I see a subtle change in the flow whereas it thins a bit and begins to send light "streamers" within the stripes into the cup. Typically I stop here. I may be completely wrong and being overly proactive. I may try letting the shots go a bit to mellow them out (just a little). The lighting for these three is quite poor and I think it's typical to better see the details in person (one downside to sharing videos).

All in all the shots are fantastic; I like the new routine (a real Zen thing) for its simplicity and challenge. It is harder to get really great flowing and tasting shots, but it does also feel more rewarding when I do. My success rate has gone down a little bit but my enjoyment level has risen. With practice I hope to become a home barista...someday.

[Jasonian]

Tim, the center beeding was immediate evidence that you were using a convex tamper.

I will say that the resulting pours from just the different tampers will taste a little different, all other variables constant.

I've been using my flat tamper pretty well exclusively lately, and I don't have issues... and no WDT.

I'll take a video today and upload it tonight.

I'm not entirely sure what about the extraction changes due to the shape of the tamper, but the result is always different. The colors in the naked pour are different. It's interesting.

[HB]

This thread hasn't seen a new video in the last couple months. This is an extraction with no channeling and even striping. The initial beading starts along the perimeter, but very quickly covers the entire bottom. It's nothing special, just a good solid pour. Unfortunately I let it run 3-4 seconds too long.




The "crema waterline" marks indicate the espresso sat...