Vetrano vs. Bricoletta vs. ?? - Page 2

[Spencer]

On some other threads in the Tips & Techniques Forum there has been discussion of a Monster Bricc project that Malachi has been working on. Its supposed to be out in January. Its under Thin & Blonding and the following is a quote from one of Malachi's posts:

"On a side note - In the next few weeks I will be collaborating with a vendor involved in this site on a system/modification to allow for FAR easier and more accurate brew temp management on the Bricc (and other machines similar to it).
This project is code-named Monster Bricc and is part of the Monster Cafe plan.
It will actually include some other mods and customizations as well.
When ready, I will post a big history, timeline, photos and information about the project and the results.
With luck - this will become a possible offering for others as part of a modification and customization service."

I've been running the Bricc (direct plumb, lever) and a Cimbali Jr. grinder on a 20 amp circuit that runs more than just the grinder and Bricc and haven't had a problem.

Good luck.

[miKe mcKoffee]

I've been running the Bricc (direct plumb, lever) and a Cimballi Jr. grinder on a 20 amp circuit that runs more than just the grinder and Bricc and haven't had a problem.

Good luck.

That's good to know. I still have the feeling that if the Bric' happens to be pulling a shot and boiler in heating mode and nuker used at the same time it's gonna trip. 1100w nuker = about 10A and 1900w Bric about 17A. I will of course test the scenario after my Bric' arrives this coming Friday!

[anim57]

I wanted to let everyone who weighed in on my decision-making process know that this morning I bought a La Spaziale S1 and a MACAP M4 from Chris @ Chris's Coffee. I wouldn't have bought either of these w/o the input of you guys.

I really appreciate it!

BTW, Chris is AWESOME! Of course, based on the feedback in these forums, I knew he would be.

And Mike, as for your offer:

If you want to wait a week or so my Bric' will be here so you could check out in person, across the river in Vancouver WA.

I'll let you try out my S1 if you let me try out your Bricc

Andy

[malachi]

Ummm... Mike... you might want to take the Microwave off that circuit.
Seriously.

[miKe mcKoffee]

Ummm... Mike... you might want to take the Microwave off that circuit.
Seriously.

Yeah, I know. The power requirements of the Bric' was the primary thing that delayed me accepting Chris's offer for a full day! Unfortunately moving the Nuker to another circuit is not an option. (SO factor and kitchen layout) And placement of the Bric' is pretty much set in stone on the counter right side of the sink. Temporarily I'll likely run a short heavy gauge ext cord from the left side of the sink outlets (which are on the kitchen's other 20A circuit) to the Bric' until I have a new dedicated circuit run, easier than remembering to turn off Bric' before using Nuker (Pretty much guarantee Debi wouldn't remember and would not be happy.) Don't use the Nuker a lot but enough for re-heating or cooking frozen veggies would kill WAF. Though left circuit may pose a different power problem, haven't checked the fridge's pull and occasionally used toaster oven... Real solution of course dedicated circuit.

I do have two 20A dedicated circuits I added for outdoor Christmas lights. I could run a 12 gauge contruction extension cord from the garage through the cat door into the den through the dining area into the kitchen. Yeah, that would work. Yeah right, maybe if I was single! And of course still couldn't use the Bric' during the evening the entire month of December! Bad enough I have to remember not to roast coffee while the Christmas lights are on or turn off the lights first... (was roasting off the washing machines 20A but switched when I added the new Christmas circuits a few years ago)

[Balthazar_B]

Wow, Mike, now I'm really glad I ordered the Vetrano .

[miKe mcKoffee]

Wow, Mike, now I'm really glad I ordered the Vetrano .

Chris made me an offer I coudn't refuse (even with the power issues )

[malachi]

Out of curiosity... how real are these perceived power issues with the Bricoletta? Has anyone actually run into trouble?

[miKe mcKoffee]

Out of curiosity... how real are these perceived power issues with the Bricoletta? Has anyone actually run into trouble?

As real as overloading any circuit regardless what appliances doing the overloading! 1st-Line lists the Bric' as 1900w 110v which would suck up 17.27A when fully engaged. Doesn't leave a lot of head room on a 20A circuit. Depending of the strength of the breaker sure can go slightly over for varying brief time periods.

I have no doubt that if I attempted to pull a shot and steam simulteously AND Debi kicked on the Nuker circuit would trip, it should! But maybe I'll get lucky and the circuit will handle brief overloads. Checked the fridge, 8.3A rating (max would be when compressor engaged & icemaker dumping simultanesouly & door opened turning on its lights) so that circuit out of the equation too.

[malachi]

I know the theory - I'm just wondering it this has actually happened to anyone.

[miKe mcKoffee]

I'll let you try out my S1 if you let me try out your Bricc

Andy

Sure, sounds great. Playing with the S1 can't be as bad on the psyche as playing with the proto LM GS3!

[miKe mcKoffee]

I know the theory - I'm just wondering it this has actually happened to anyone.

Apologies, no intention of calling you a dunce! Actual experiences would be good to know, I'll know soon enough. (well, not soon enough or I'd already have the Bric' )

[mrosco]

It may vary by region but code in the Northeast is newer and recently remodeled homes need to have 2-20 amp circuits plus additional circuits for the refrig and stove in the ktichen. My home is 13 years old and has this set up.

[Grant]

Out of curiosity... how real are these perceived power issues with the Bricoletta? Has anyone actually run into trouble?

Though I ran a dedicated 20A circuit just for my Bric (the location made it easy), I have never actually measured the draw, but you have me curious now. I have a friend with a clamp ammeter, so I will test it out ASAP and let ya know....

Grant

[lennoncs]

Please be careful

I just spent a significant amount of time dealing with an arc flash incident when the breaker did not trip properly on a machine tool. we spent a lot of time testing the response of both commercial and home breaker assemblies, the response of a home breaker can best be described as plus or minus half a brick...trip it a couple of times and the trip point can drift.

don't lean too heavily on the advertised trip characteristics of your basic $9 home breaker and replace it after you trip it a couple of times.

I tested one of the cheap "Pacific" brand breakers that my Brewtus tripped at our house and found that the trip characteristics had drifted ~33%...Higher! our home now has a a full compliment of magnetic breakers. Pricey...you bet...and I sleep well too.


just my $.02...I like this little community we have here and would feel awful if I heard one of us lost a home or possibly worse.


Sean

"we now return to our scheduled programming"

[matt]

Though I ran a dedicated 20A circuit just for my Bric (the location made it easy), I have never actually measured the draw, but you have me curious now. I have a friend with a clamp ammeter, so I will test it out ASAP and let ya know....

I am kind of curious here as well. My only available 20A circuit is shared by a refrigerator (4.75A draw) so technically the Bric shouldn't be possible. But if there was some way it could work, I would be oh so tempted -- it's a much nicer looking machine than the Vetrano. The other differences between the two (vacuum breaker, brew manometer) are no big deal, as I have the spare parts for those around already. The power difference, though -- hard to get around that.

Also, for those that have mentioned catering weddings -- I realize it was brought up partially as a joke, but would that be possible with the Vetrano, if it isn't NSF certified? Or would that only apply to permanent cafes?

[Balthazar_B]

The other differences between the two (vacuum breaker, brew manometer) are no big deal, as I have the spare parts for those around already. The power difference, though -- hard to get around that.

There are more differences than that, which Chris (who used to sell the Bricc) will talk about at length if you let him . I haven't received mine yet, but the Vetrano appears to be a better thought-out (i.e., engineered) machine in the same class as the Bricc (size, capacity, method, etc.). I should know within a few weeks, when I've had the chance to learn the Vetrano and, I hope, do some first-hand comparisons with the Bricc.

[matt]

There are more differences than that, which Chris (who used to sell the Bricc) will talk about at length if you let him . I haven't received mine yet, but the Vetrano appears to be a better thought-out (i.e., engineered) machine in the same class as the Bricc (size, capacity, method, etc.). I should know within a few weeks, when I've had the chance to learn the Vetrano and, I hope, do some first-hand comparisons with the Bricc.

It's probably true. I'm going to call in the morning and see if I can get it from him. From what I can tell, the anti-vacuum valve, the possibility of a Sirai pstat, an insulated boiler, and a brew pressure gauge are the bullet-point features on the Vetrano's side. The drip tray may also be a bit nicer, as Chris Tacy thought the Bric's didn't come out quite far enough.
For the most part, we're talking relatively minor ergonomic differences. So far, the wattage issue is the only thing I've seen that can't be remedied at home.
The parts the Vetrano has in common with the the Anita and Andreja is enough reason for Chris to carry it instead of the Bric, I would think. Being the direct importer can't hurt either.
I'll let you all know if I find out anything from Chris; sadly, it will be too late to do anything about it if I do, of course.
It is a sad irony that the doubtless tempting review that Dan will be starting over the weekend will start after the Vetranos are all sold out until February. Cruel!

[HB]

It is a sad irony that the doubtless tempting review that Dan will be starting over the weekend will start after the Vetranos are all sold out until February. Cruel!

If it helps, read the Buyer's Guide to the Andreja Premium. I just finished installing the Vetrano and it appears to share many of the same parts and construction of its sister (no surprise there). The rotary pump is very quiet.

[matt]

If it helps, read the Buyer's Guide to the Andreja Premium. I just finished installing the Vetrano and it appears to share many of the same parts and construction of its sister (no surprise there). The rotary pump is very quiet.

Thanks for pointing that out. It is helpful; that Andreja article has actually been tempting me for months.
It's a moot point now in the Bricoletta vs. Vetrano debate (at least until February), but for those who are still curious, Chris's guide to the Bricoletta mentioned five minor points against it:

* The poor design of the stock portafilter may be a problem, albeit one that is easy to remedy
* The drip tray doesn't extend far enough forward which results in moderate mess when cleaning the group using the "portafilter wiggle" technique
* Its pressurestat is a cheap one with average performance, though there is more than enough room to swap in a commercial Sirai if you want to. This is something I would do given my comfort with the Sirai unit
* The orientation of the pump requires that you remove the entire casing for pressure adjustments; it should be oriented to allow for adjustments by simply removing the top. For that matter, it would be even better were the pump moved outboard
* The Bricoletta has no pressure gauge, which would be really, really helpful. Frankly, the idea of a machine of this quality and with a rotary pump that doesn't have a pressure gauge is a bit confusing to me. It couldn't possibly add that much to the cost of the machine and would make life a lot easier for the baristas using the Bricoletta
* It would be nice if the steam wand had more articulation. The stock steam tip is only average
* And, of course, life would get a lot easier if the machine (or at least the boiler) were insulated.

The Vetrano, if I read it right, answers five out of seven of these gripes (with the Sirai pstat).
Mind you, the difference is still small, but for $1300 purchases knowing the small differences is comforting.