I'm using both a Pharos and Macap M4 doserless right now. I just aligned the Pharos. The M4 has new burrs that have maybe 10 pounds through them so far.

There's a significant difference (as expected) in how the shots taste - but not in the direction you'd think. The Macap's shots pull with a much darker, redder, thicker crema and a little more bite - the Pharos has a thinner, blonder crema with a smoother, but shallower taste.

The beans are Red Bird Blue Jaguar, about a week off of roasting. The machine is a QM Alexia EVO, set to 8 bars and 198F.

I've always thought the Pharos would blow everything else out of the water - is this just a conical vs. flat issue?

I've been looking for a "never upgrade" grinder, and I thought I'd settled. But this is making me re-think whether I'd want a larger flat (Major, for example).

Thanks for any help or thoughts you have!

Same here... Based on my experience it's a flat vs. conical 'issue' more than anything else. I've done quite a bit of tinkering comparing my Rocky with a few espresso capable conical burr hand mills from the 50s and 60s (KyM and PeDe). Both are the cylindrical Turkish style design, but have proper tool steel burr sets with stepless adjustment. The espresso from them is a bit lighter in color, a bit thinner and the conicals bring out the brightness in the coffees I roast. Rocky extractions are as you describe... thicker, richer in color/taste, bringing out the heavier flavor profiles.

I owned a Pharos, which was a monstrous upgrade over a Rocky. I had to do a mod to be able to make fine tweaks to the grind without really screwing up. There were some roasts that seemed to work better than others. I definitely had some god shots - which made me value consistency even more. But, ultimately I upgraded and have never looked back.

I'm sure the Pharos is a beast of a hand grinder, but personally I wouldn't buy from OE as their customer service is on the iffy side compared to other companies.

I don't believe that's a flats vs conicals thing, the shot you are describing coming from the Pharos sounds like an underextracted shot. Something seems off kilter there. Is just the crema thinner or is the mouthfeel thinner as well?

A well dialed in conical shot and a well dialed in flat shot (in the same size class anyway) should look and taste very similar but with different nuances to the taste profile.

What do the pours look like between the two?

Spyderman24-7 wrote:I'm sure the Pharos is a beast of a hand grinder, but personally I wouldn't buy from OE as their customer service is on the iffy side compared to other companies.

Well, you would be making a mistake. Yes, they are a small company, truly a "Mom and Pop." BUT, they will make everything right.

Spyderman24-7 wrote:I'm sure the Pharos is a beast of a hand grinder, but personally I wouldn't buy from OE as their customer service is on the iffy side compared to other companies.

Not to jump on the bash bandwagon but; I also had a bad experience with OE late last year.
No reply emails to my issues until I contacted PayPal resolution.

Edit: My customer service issue was related to Arrarex seals, not a grinder issue.
The dismissiveness and unwillingness to at least communicate with me a buyer precluded me from any furture purchases.

redbone wrote:Not to jump on the bash bandwagon but; I also had a bad experience with OE late last year.
No reply emails to my issues until I contacted PayPal resolution.

I have a second hand Pharos already that i picked up here. I'm getting a used Major this weekend and will probably sell the Pharos. I've used this forum for tech support

Believe it or not, in spite of the long history of Pharos and OE bashing ( some from HB users who we have no record of having a transaction or email in almost 8 years) we are going to build 184 Pharos this month. That would be the royal "we".
Regards
Pop

This may come as a surprise to many, but I haven't adjusted my Pharos in months!! Once it's properly aligned (which I've only done once in 5 years) and you have it dialed in for espresso, provided you are using fresh roasted coffee of coarse, it can deliver over and over even across different machines. It's extremely forgiving; in fact the most forgiving grinder I've ever used. In the past few years we've seen a myriad of hand grinders introduced in to the market, but nothing can match the performance of the Pharos, at it's price point.

P.S. Good to see O.E chime in, and especially good to know they are still pumping out this fantastic grinder.