redbone wrote:Notice a lot of discussion of certain machines, in particular GS3 and Slayer. Has anyone here compared them to similar featured profiling machines such as Ambient vesuvius or Rocket R60V at 1/2 the cost ? These machines along with other pump machines are capable of preinfusion. Needless to say a lever machine is the original preinfusion espresso machine.

Hi there,

I currently have both R60v and Slayer at home. I was really interested in pre-infusion control and just really liked the Rocket looks, remote app and profiling options, so i started my espresso journey with it.

I really liked the Rocket's taste but i had an opportunity on a Slayer during the holidays. To me the Slayer was like the Mustand 67 in "Gone in 60 seconds" film with Nicolas Cage: just had to put my hands on it!

After a month or so of use, I must admit: there is a difference but not THAT much of a difference. I once was an audiophle (i actually traded hobbies to coffee) and there is lots of similitudes... first few $'s bring lots of benefits to the end product, but there is a point of diminishing return on investment eventually.

Don't get me wrong, i love my slayer:
- steaming power
- control-control-control
- looks
- capacity

The biggest difference is the ability to adapt as a parista to a shot, from shot to shot.

With the rocket, i would set my pre infusion at a set number of seconds (let's say 10 sec) then hope for blooming to happen at the right time - 10 secs. Reality is: shot is always off by 1-2 secs under or over pre infusing... coffee is a beast and varies from shot to shot as you know. With the Slayer, i can manually Stop pre infusion exactly when needed, if it is 11 sec vs 10 sec that is needed, i stretch pre infusion: I never miss booming again.

The fact that i have great satisfaction in this level of control do not translate as musch as "in the cup" taste as I expected with the vast majority of coffees... extremely light roasts, yes, a lot? Not a lot, on medium roast? Not as much.

Still, I will keep my Mustang 67

Hope this helps

You have a good point with cost and a diminishing return, I have always bought the more expensive unit as I looked at an overall investment
In many hobbies people buy the entry level then upgrade and upgrade and upgrade " you get the point" in the end would have been cheaper to buy the better model new

Bill

But sometimes it's fun to drive a Ferrari instead of a Ford

True, i believe I was suggesting a R60 was a ferrari and the Slayer a Tesla P100D... is the extra $$ really worth it?

Describe "worth"

"touché"

moreshots wrote:I have contacted Chris' Coffee and they have a board to support the older m21 units to the new specs for passive preinfusion
Bill

Well Chris' Coffee's Cimbali distributor must have really turned a leaf. Many moons ago I approached them asking for a Casa board retrofit for my M21 and they stalled forever. As a joke I made it point to email their distributor every year just to see what excuse they could come up with next - this went on for like 4 years. However, I was able to do other Casa upgrades like the steam tip and dual gauge (working with the Los Angeles Cimbali distributor), which I do recommend.

Getting back to the OP's question, based on my lasting experience with the M21 in comparison to my recent pre-infusion playground experience with a Londinium L1-P, I can safely say that the pre-infusion capability would be worth it for M21, even though $450 is ridiculous for a new board. If you want to save scratch, then go with the old Ken Fox mod, which I had put off doing. In hindsight I should have done it years ago. What kept me limping along was the gicleur mod that allowed semi-tedious naked PF capability from the super strong, instant ramp rotary pump. As contrast, the L1-P only comes with a naked PF, because its so easy pull thick tiger-stripers with line-pressure PI from the lever.

We'll have not gotten a message that the board is in!!!!!!!!!
So maybe the same case
Meanwhile decided to put the $500 twords a new Slayer 1 group
Bill