Some of you guys/gals know me from the home-roasting forum... I'm quickly becoming very attracted to going down the rabbit hole of espresso making at home. The crossroads I'm at, and where several people probably encounter, is... do I start with a cheaper machine, or just do it right from the get go. By the way, I have read the excellent FAQ on this similar topic.

It'd likely be best to avoid the buying cycle I did with roasting machines - popcorn popper > sr500 > behmor > hottop > huky. I'd tell others to go straight to huky or the most expensive machine you could afford. THAT SAID, I'm not sure I like espresso enough to be so committed from the get go (or rather, I don't think I can mentally handle being so passionate about espresso like I am about roasting LOL).


I'm likely only going to be making espresso for myself, and potentially a friend when they're over at my house. Milk drinks are something I'd frequently make. So theoretically, it seems like a single boiler set up can work for me (vs stepping up to HX or double boiler). One thing that concerns me about cheaper machines, (and this happened with roasting machines too), is the difficulty inconsistent results. Although it seems once you have proper technique down, and potentially with the help of a PID, good results seem quite achievable.

Cheaper machines - new gaggia classic, silvia, crossland cc1

Mid level - finding a used nuova oscar gen 1 (this actually seems ideal but I haven't seen any pop up lately)

Top of my range - Oscar 2, astra pro (guy on reddit is a dedicated evangelist for the astra), or, I found an amazing price on lightly used S1 Mini Vivaldi II by La Spaziale. Tempted to go straight to the s1 mini 2 because if I ever didn't like it, I don't foresee losing money on it.


One problem I"m encountering with evaluating a gaggia classic is that it seems several people never paired them wiht a quality grinder. I'll be buying at least a baratza vario, sette, maybe a mazzer. Unless I can find a used, already PID'd silvia, the silvia simply doesn't seem worth it. It doesn't seem much better than the gaggia. Crossland seems to have great features for the price, but quality seems mixed bag? If I go cheap and get a gaggia classic or cc1, am I really going to be disappointed assuming I pair it with a proper grinder?

OR

Should I just go to an HX machine, and up my budget to $1200 ish for machine, and experience far less headaches, and have a seriously well built machine. I'm just not sure I'm going to use it enough to warrant that?


Thanks as always my H-B friends
-Joe

I started very simply with roasters about 14 years ago, had a Hottop for many years and finally a Quest M3. Started Espresso with an HX machine (Isomac)and for me it was not as repeatable as desired. Purchased a La Spaziele, Vivaldi2 that was used for over 10 years with no issues and very good coffee. My son is now using and still has had no issues. I would very highly recommend.
I drink Americanos, so pull 2 to 4 doubles per day, with occasional guests.
Good luck with your journey!

Since you said you can get a good deal on it, i would also recommend the La Spaziale mini Vivaldi II. Great machine, superb steamer and well built.

Without a grinder upgrade, I wouldn't break the budget on an espresso machine.

Jack

dale_cooper wrote:If I go cheap and get a gaggia classic or cc1, am I really going to be disappointed assuming I pair it with a proper grinder?

OR

Should I just go to an HX machine, and up my budget to $1200 ish for machine, and experience far less headaches, and have a seriously well built machine.

I started with the Gaggia classic and B vario. The combination could make good espresso. Occasionally. I found the consistency and adjustability of both challenging to get repeatable results, although it was sorta fun to hunt around. Instead of how often you will use it, consider how you want the setup to feel when you use it. Cheap and occasionally capable? Or rock solid with minimal fuss?

JR_Germantown wrote:Without a grinder upgrade, I wouldn't break the budget on an espresso machine.

Jack

What would you recommend? I thought the Vario was quite good?

Espresso in SB wrote:I started with the Gaggia classic and B vario. The combination could make good espresso. Occasionally. I found the consistency and adjustability of both challenging to get repeatable results, although it was sorta fun to hunt around. Instead of how often you will use it, consider how you want the setup to feel when you use it. Cheap and occasionally capable? Or rock solid with minimal fuss?

I want something capable... Its just like my feeling when I was roasting on a behmor or stock hottop... Not having data logging to see what's going on made it pretty difficult to repeat results and study what was going on.

A Baratza Vario is a good espresso grinder, don't worry.

dale_cooper wrote:What would you recommend? I thought the Vario was quite good?

Sorry, that comment was based on what I saw in your user profile ("Pour Over (v60/wave 185) / LIDO 2 and virtuoso / Huky 500J"). I reviewed your post twice, yet still missed what you said about upgrading to a Vario.

Jack

If you have the opportunity to grab a La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II for a good price, I'd grab it. They're excellent machines that will provide easy, solid results for a long time. Great machine! You won't be juggling trying to get the machine to produce good espresso. The variables will be the grinder, the beans and you.