Coffee Freshness System - Page 4

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OldNuc
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#31: Post by OldNuc »

Once a cylinder is purged and the green LED is on the latches can be released and the cylinder removed and it remains pressurized. This cylinder can now be stored. I usually just put it into the freezer. Keep in mind that the temperature drop will decrease the internal pressure but the internal atmosphere is still near O2 free.

OldNuc
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#32: Post by OldNuc »

AssafL wrote:+1.

Seems like a good test is to take a day old roasted coffee, seal it and CO2 flush it. Take an identical amount, seal it in a bag and store both for a month. on the 29th day, buy another pound of freshly roasted coffee.

Test all three side by side. The best outcome is #1 and #3 cannot be distinguished and 2 is horrible.

BTW - why is the system pressurized? I thought the idea is to reduce the amount of oxygen by replacing it with CO2. Once the oxygen is out why do they need the pressure?
The cylinder is maintained pressurized so that external environment changes do not inadvertently result in the cylinder becoming negative pressure as the fill-vent valve would then allow O2 atmosphere to enter to equalize the differential. You would run into this by using the system to purge a cylinder for freezer storage. If purging and then having a final pressure of 1 or 2 inches of H2O pressure before freezer storage the internal pressure would be way negative after equalizing to a freezer temperature of 0F to -10F.

The test you propose above has ben done several times and the first thing that pops up is fresh roast #1 and fresh roast #3 are likely not compatible regardless of how stored. If you are using a commercial mas roasted Italian Blend then you have some assurance that the 1K bag to bag consistency will be acceptable and then the test you propose will result in #1=#3 and #2 is in the trash.

bytheway
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#33: Post by bytheway »

Earlier in the thread a comment was made about vacuum wine sealers with the manual pump and its shortcomings were explained. Is the CFS superior to even the Food Saver (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003U738ZE/re ... ryb7YWZ14R) automatic vacuum sealer and why? Thanks

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TomC
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#34: Post by TomC replying to bytheway »


Hopefully, I'm not restating something you already know, but incase not; they work by different mechanisms. The CFS device uses positive pressure to displace the 21% oxygen (room air) by cycling several times and venting, so that at the end of it's multiple exchanges, you end up with almost nothing but CO2. I believe they've stated values of O2 reduced to near 1%.

I haven't toyed around with vacuum systems so I can't offer a comparison. I've worked with the beta device, testing it out and have been impressed with the results and I feel that they're certainly onto something. I've changed the coffees around only a little bit, since I can load up a large quantity, my espresso consumption is rather low, and it lasts me a very long time. But using (by current standards) a well developed classic Italian style espresso blend like Lionshare from Caffe Lusso, it's been nice to see the consistency in flavor and extraction parameters over the longer period. The coffee doesn't seem to go stale. I was able to pay $44 for a bit over kilo of this coffee (and that was before they had the reduced USPS priced shipping) so I imagine the end user would break even on the cost of the system in time.

Edit: I actually do have some experience with vacuuming coffee containers for storage, I just had a temporary brain fart. I bought the adapter for the Foodsaver( a very similar but older model to the one you linked) about 2 years ago that would apply a vacuum to a Mason/Ball style jar lid. In order to get the coffee to remain fresh, I needed to go thru that process, plus store it in the chest freezer in small doses. Once they're out of the freezer and/or opened, the staling process begins again, so you have to do very small jars, or consume it rather quickly.

I also upgraded my vacuum storage tools by getting a Vacmaster VP215 that I can adjust the vacuum pressure. I've used it to seal up multiple jars at a time since it's a chamber vacuum. But it's more expensive than the CFS device and I bought it primarily for my sous vide cooking and food storage.

Hope that helps.
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AssafL
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#35: Post by AssafL »

bytheway wrote:Earlier in the thread a comment was made about vacuum wine sealers with the manual pump and its shortcomings were explained. Is the CFS superior to even the Food Saver (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003U738ZE/re ... ryb7YWZ14R) automatic vacuum sealer and why? Thanks
I don't expect there would be a difference in longevity (albeit I'd vacuum pack it right after the batch cools down). As it outgasses the bag swells but it is like illy - perfect for a long time. But my issues (and I have an industrial vacuum packer from the sous vide days) is that vacuum packed coffee - Just like Illy - stales rather quickly after opening.

I don't know about the soda-stream like system but it would seem more convenient since each day you'd extract a quantity (which would then go stale rather quickly) - hence you can make it last without resealing the bag every day and even that won't help since the coffee no longer outgasses - so the residual oxygen will still be there...even after resealing. I know people put oxy-sorb to solve that issue when they store oxygen sensitive foods in vacuum or inert gasses (I do that for beef jerky - very effective) - but I have not seen that used for coffee.

Possibly the best way would be to seal individual doses right after roasting - in individual bags or bottles. You'll end up with lots of pillows that should last (stored in the dark) for a long time. Quality-wise - it is a perfect system - think how great the coffee pods are like Nespresso are... However - making them is very inconvenient and lots of work for marginal gain....

Convenience (to me) is important. Hence I roast my own and don't buy roasted coffee in bags larger than 250 grams so I don't have to store. Replaced the cumbersome sous vide setup with a combisteamer due to the space needs (bath + vacuum packer), and the long cooking time (mainly heating up the water). Steamer does it faster - and without losing quality.
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TomC
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#36: Post by TomC »

Bak Ta Lo wrote:Tom,

I had a thought when looking at the system. Could the single large container be used to store multiple beans somehow in the same cylinder? Dividing up the space with some kind of divider or non airtight trays? You could open the large container dose out several different doses of different beans from stacked trays, then put all the trays back inside and pressurize it.

The system would be perfect for me if I could store 3-4 beans in separate 500g containers somehow.

Sorry I missed this post. I'm going to test out using simple nylon mesh bags (the type used for making nut milks) since they're pretty cheap. I'll roast up a few different types of coffee, toss them in ( I'll figure out some sort of labeling solution so I don't forget which is which) and see how they fare over time. Others (Shawn, OldNuc, Martin) might consider doing the same and share their thoughts, if this sort of thing falls into their own workflow patterns.

Heck, I imagine any simple porous type material would work. I chuckled to myself thinking about a super cheap route; I could steal a few of my girlfriends new nylons/leggings, and use them just to test it out, but I don't think I'll go down that route :lol: . It would be cool if one container could not only store 3 or 4 coffees indefinitely, but not make them all taste the same. I have no idea if it'll work however.
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AssafL
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#37: Post by AssafL »

TomC wrote:It would be cool if one container could not only store 3 or 4 coffees indefinitely, but not make them all taste the same. I have no idea if it'll work however.


Do coffee flavonoids sublimate over time? Fresh coffee does have a unique bouquet - but over time that does diminish... I wonder if enough to change the flavor profile of another bean.... All I could find was this https://books.google.co.il/books?id=1nL ... on&f=false

So my guess is that since flavonoids are water soluble it is water vapor that transfers them between products (like a fresh moist vanilla bean permeates sugar by virtue of the sugar being slightly hygroscopic). So would putting a pillow of Silica Gel in there under the beans help prevent water vapor from spreading The Gesha bouquet to the other coffees?
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bytheway
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#38: Post by bytheway »

Hi all,

I am purchasing one of the "Coffee Freshness Systems". I have been extremely impressed by the level of communication from Robert Wallach who has replied to my emails within 24 hours on every occasion. He has also sourced the CO2 regulator for me and they are now in the shop.

I spoke to him about smaller canisters as I tend to buy very expensive coffees (single estate/special reserve lots such as the Esmeralda Geishas, Best of Panama and COE high ranking coffees, because I only do pour over with my EK43 at home, and only do two 15g coffee/250ml water brews per day). Hence the 1kg canister will use a lot of unnecessary CO2 for me.

He is planning to offer canisters with half the capacity of the current canisters in 3-5 months. I asked about smaller canisters because my purchases are as small as 100g of very high grade coffee to a maximum of 250g of any one roast. He said if there was enough interest in 250g canisters then they would strongly consider creating these.

If anybody is interested in this please reply to this thread and Robert will monitor the interest.

I will report my impressions when I test out the unit.

Thanks.

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shawndo
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#39: Post by shawndo »

Definitely also interested in smaller canisters.
Also a good idea to get the regulator from them. I didn't and had a few false steps with a poor regulator gauge from a local beverage shop.

The instructions say to provide the machine with 15psi but my gauge was lying to me. The fallback is to make sure one of the fill cycles takes 10-15 seconds. If it is faster than that the co2 mix won't be right and the coffee will stale. (This is all in the instructions but I totally ignored it once I trusted the regulator set to 15psi)
Everything seems fine now, but still working through my first full batch since I got all that figured out. Ill comment more once I went through a couple batches.
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