Any reason to install Eric's thermometer in a double boiler? - Page 2

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Randy G.
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#11: Post by Randy G. »

I have to do some investigating on my machine. I have it on a timer and it heats up as much as an hour before use some mornings. Usually at least 45 minutes. I have it set to 203 brew temp currently and when flushed it can hit 205.5 and can take a flush of about 2 or 2.5 ounces to cool the group and water to brew temp. it is taking a bit more of a flush than it use to. It is descaled and no other changes have been made. But the point is that it has always needed a bit of a flush after an extended idle. The water in the boiler has to be kept hotter than the brew temp and while the machine sit and the thermosyphon continues, things do get a bit hotter than brew temp.
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thecatch83 (original poster)
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#12: Post by thecatch83 (original poster) »

turtle wrote:I was under the impression (maybe mistaken impression) that dual boiler machines did not super heat the brew water like HX machines do?

I MUST flush prior to every pull with my Pasquini if I wait more than 3 minutes between pulls. I did not think this was necessary with a dual boiler machine as the brew water temp was epitomized for brewing and the steam water temp was optimized for steaming?

Out of curiosity, does the brew water temp on a dual boiler machine float that much that you "must" flush before pulling a shot?

I've never owned nor even contemplated a dual boiler machine, always opting for an HX and flushing the steam before pulling. Live with the devil you know rather than getting a new devil to learn all about has always been my motto

Correct...the only reason why you would flush a DB is to clean the group head and/or preheat your vessel.

Beezer
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#13: Post by Beezer »

Most DB machines benefit from a short flush to get the group up to temp. It's the opposite of an HX, where the brew water starts out too hot and then has to be flushed to cool down. In a DB, especially an e61 DB, the group is a bit too cool and needs to be heated. A short flush of an ounce or two is all you need though, so it's not as fussy as HX's can be.
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Bob_McBob
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#14: Post by Bob_McBob »

TomC wrote:Less so, but it would still provide some reassurance to some. I can't recall off the top of my head how many DB machines are on the market that aren't PID'd, but I know the original version of the Duetto was. Machines like it, with a pstat are still going to wander a bit in temp. Eric's thermometer is an affordable data point.
The Duetto has always had a PID-controlled brew boiler. The steam boiler was a traditional p-stat until the Duetto II update. The p-stat version actually has slightly better steaming performance than the current model because the dual-use PID is tuned for the brew boiler and doesn't react as quickly to a pressure drop.
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zimberto
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#15: Post by zimberto »

Beezer wrote:Most DB machines benefit from a short flush to get the group up to temp. It's the opposite of an HX, where the brew water starts out too hot and then has to be flushed to cool down. In a DB, especially an e61 DB, the group is a bit too cool and needs to be heated. A short flush of an ounce or two is all you need though, so it's not as fussy as HX's can be.
I'd be interested to know if you have tested the group temp of "most DB machines" and especially E61 DB machines in order to be able to make this statement. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that you have, because the experience and knowledge of people on this site never ceases to amaze me. :) All I can say is that my DB machine shows the exact PID displayed temp when measured with a Scace device without a warming flush. With my machine, a warming flush will actually drive the temp higher than the PID shows.

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turtle
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#16: Post by turtle »

It would be helpful to know the type of head group on the machines that are being discussed.

there is a marked difference between a E61 and a saturated head/brew group in design and function.
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I'd rather be roasting coffee

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canuckcoffeeguy
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#17: Post by canuckcoffeeguy replying to turtle »

+1 I imagine an E61 grouphead on a DB is more susceptible to minor temp changes than a saturated, or electrically heated DB group.

The E61 is exposed, and heated by thermosyphon loop. It was never intended for DB machines. Historically, it was for HX machines.

Because it is exposed, it is vulnerable to minor temp changes based on ambient conditions, or internal problems such as thermosyphon stalls/blockages, or even scale buildup. All of these things can affect the E61 group's idle temperature.

The PID display tells you nothing about the grouphead's idle temp or internal health. So Eric's thermometer is useful from that perspective. It allows you to monitor your E61 grouphead's idle temp. And keep track of any changes caused by ambient temp fluctuations(air conditioning etc.) or any internal problems. So it's a useful diagnostic tool.

Your DB's PID could be fine, but if your grouphead has a problem, your brew temp will be off. Then you'll be wondering why your coffee tastes sour or bitter. Then you would think it's your PID or something else. When really it's your grouphead. And Eric's thermometer would indicate something is amiss in the group. Like G.I.Joe always said, "knowing is half the battle!"

This is moot for saturated or heated groups. Since Eric's thermometer is only available for E61 machines.

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turtle
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#18: Post by turtle »

I have always been a belt and suspenders kind of guy

so

IF (big if) I had the option for a group head temp gauge I would surely take advantage, even if there were not a large benefit.
Mick - Drinking in life one cup at a time
I'd rather be roasting coffee

Jenda
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#19: Post by Jenda »

:shock:

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