ira wrote:I have one but have not used it yet. Everything we know about making espresso is changing at a quite rapid pace and who's to say what the right answer for tamping is. There are the traditional ones, the press style that never caught, the weight checking style, this style, the level tamp style and that one with the fins that you spin to spread and level the coffee. Given what else has been proven not to be important lately, how would anyone know what the right answer for a tamper is or even if any of these choices are right?

Many of us here have seen that the actual tamping force itself is not terribly important once you reach about 30 pounds. There are exceptions to that (such as steam powered machines and, from what I am told, lever machines). I have to support the theory that an evenly distributed and level tamp is important. From the most basic rules of hydraulic engineering and physics that would seem to make sense, no?

If there are any arguments against those points which are valid let's share them, please (a statement not aimed at you, personally, Ira).

These "puck" tampers will be tamping level IF they hit the portafilter, but only MAY be tamping at an effective force WHEN they hit the basket.
They MIGHT be level if they do not hit the portafilter, but likely WILL be tamping at an effective force when the user stops pressing. But whether or not they are level is not at all easily discerned in this case.

So I am playing devil's advocate here, and if anyone has anything which can contradict what I am saying please do share. These just seem like a simple solution to something that is generally not a problem and for which plenty of other solutions already exist.

I do not have one of these tampers, but I do have an Espro click tamper and the M0G Tools digital tamper. I use the Espro daily because I like its mass and it fits my hand very well. I think I would like it as much if the click wasn't there. I use the M-G once in a while because it just looks cool. And maybe that is all the justification that any coffee tool needs- it feels good and looks good. But it still has to work. If the tool adds steps or it makes a given part of the process more cumbersome or difficult, it loses my vote.

I have an Espro tamper too, but last time I was making espresso I was using a turned stainless one from ebay and using about 5 lbs of pressure leveled with fingertips on the edge. Seemed to work as well or better than 30 lbs with the calibrated tamper. But I still stand by my statement that things are changing so fast that it might also turn out that everything we know about tamping is wrong. Maybe tamping is unnecessary and the right solution is controlling pressure from above and flow from a valve after the coffee and tamping is both unnecessary and counterproductive.

Ira

ira wrote:I have an Espro tamper too, but last time I was making espresso I was using a turned stainless one from ebay and using about 5 lbs of pressure leveled with fingertips on the edge. Seemed to work as well or better than 30 lbs with the calibrated tamper. Maybe tamping is unnecessary and the right solution is controlling pressure from above and flow from a valve after the coffee and tamping is both unnecessary and counterproductive.

Sounds right to me. 30 or 35 lbs. of pressure used to be the standard, but...in the immortal words of Barb from OE, "Tamping is overrated." OE's slapshot method proves this point where little or no pressure is applied. All they do is tap the basket and level the dose with their thumbs, using a light little tamper that's awfully cute.

I like tampers. They're fun and pleasurable to use. I especially like the feel, simplicity and design of the one I mostly use now. However, if I ever get bored with it, there are plenty of other options to choose from.

With the advent of tapping and shaking as an ubiquitous method for distribution, I think a significant variable has been added.

If you take fluffy grounds from a good grinder and don't settle the coffee with horizontal and vertical tapping/shaking, 30 +/- ibs of tamping probably equals the distribution from tap and shake with light tamping. Certainly the volume changes in my unscientific approach to this would seem similar in the two different methods. We're looking at getting a puck of uniform density to resist water flow at a consistent rate, after all, right? In the past, because we couldn't easily take a core sample of the puck, post extraction, we focused on tamping pressure as a good surrogate measure.

Now, we still aren't taking core samples to test density, but we've changed the way many distribute the coffee. We can't even settle the discussion, though, with core samples, because the puck is obviously altered by the pressure of the extraction (3-9 bars, depending on your pressure profiling preferences).

Consistent puck density is the key to eliminating an unwanted and unaccounted-for variable. Achieve it how you can and will.

I think this style of tamper i.e. Mahlgut, PUSH, Levy would work very well for those who weigh each dose and use the same grind with a grinder that has minimal retention. If the coffee is consistent, then it's just about adjusting the depth to get the proper amount of compression at the point when the tamper contacts the filter basket. Once you have that dialed in, the tamp will be perfectly level with the proper pressure applied every single time. I am sold on this style tamper and will be getting the Mahlgut tamper.

Randy, you make excellent points!

Randy G. wrote:...why not use a tamper that is specifically designed to tamp level every single time without fail like the "Easytamp 5 Star Pro" or the 'Great Leveller"? Or just use a tamper and tamp level?
...
These just seem like a simple solution to something that is generally not a problem and for which plenty of other solutions already exist.

For me, it's comes down to not wanting a handle on my tamper (not very scientific, I know) and the ease-of-use.

Also, it seems to me that the effort exerted by the push of one's palm is a simpler and more natural movement than the required routine of closing-an-imaginary-door towards the ground with 30 lbs. of pressure with perfect precision (to take care of the leveling-aspect of the equation).

ira wrote:Everything we know about making espresso is changing at a quite rapid pace and who's to say what the right answer for tamping is. Given what else has been proven not to be important lately, how would anyone know what the right answer for a tamper is or even if any of these choices are right?
Ira

Yup. Flat-bottom drip coffee from a machine was old news when hand-held pour-overs and Chemex became the rage...and now I see the champs at G&B pouring amazing coffee out of carafe which was brewed in a machine utilizing a flat-bottom filter. What's more, using the just-ground espresso was where it was at (I believe it Schomer who claimed that, after 20 seconds grounds became stale?) but, again, the champs at G&B are pre-dosing (?!?!) the best espresso-based coffee I can get in my city.

At the end of the day, my ideal tamper would be one with a Mahlgut handle, the piston-based mechanics of a "the great leveler" and the coverage of a Pergtamp. It's my hope that someday "coffeecomplements" will make one for 45 bucks and sell it on eBay.

iuvare wrote:Also, it seems to me that the effort exerted by the push of one's palm is a simpler and more natural movement than the required routine of closing-an-imaginary-door towards the ground with 30 lbs. of pressure with perfect precision (to take care of the leveling-aspect of the equation).

For home use, quite probably... but I shudder at the carpal tunnel syndrome risk in a commercial environment!

Ok guys, I've given a solid run with this tamper, courtesy of iuvare. Many thanks, Carlos for letting me try this out.

As you might have figured from my previous posts, I'm a big fan of SAI. But I have put aside my bias to tell you what my impression are of this latest offering.

It performed beautifully at its purported function, that is, to provide an even, level tamp. Given the effort required for dialing it in, was rewarded with a perfect tamp, and the shot pulled from it proved this point.

But it is this level of effort to get it "just right" that might be a problem for some people. It took me longer to dial in this tamper than it does to dial in a new roast. Now if it were a one time deal, no problem. But I imagine if a person frequently switches different beans, they'll be finding themselves spending quite a bit of time fiddling with this tamper. That may not necessarily be a problem for some folks who don't mind any of the time spent playing with coffee stuff. But for busy folks, it could be a real issue. Imagine, each time you dial in a new roast you have to spend as long or longer to dial in your tamper as well.

Beyond this, the real probem I had with this tamper was my inability to feel confident holding it. it's terribly unbalanced with the knob weighing next to nothing (58g) compared to the base 270g. Now generally an 80/20 weight distribution, though not desirable, is not a problem for most conventional tampers--so long as the handle was easy to grip. But herein lies the problem. The knob's shape, or profile I should say, is not conducive to a solid grip. Had it been tapered in the opposite direction instead of the bell shape it's in, it would have been immensely easier to hold and use.

Now to be fair, I could (and did) grip it below the bell, with my finger tips on the metal base. This is obviously a better and more confident grip but it also had some downsides. Once I have placed it into the basket and tamped my coffee, there is hardly any seam between the knob and basket. This meant I would either have to grip it along the upper profile (the slipping danger zone), or I have to extend my fingers past the knob on the outer part of the basket while lifting it off the puck. This is not very natural of a movement, but furthermore, once the base is lifted ot of the basket, the finger tips are back touching the base which has now grounds stuck to it, transferring to your finger tips.

Last but not least, speaking of loose grounds--there was a considerable amount that had accumulated underneath the knob. Knowing this, and being the OCD freak that I am, I would be unscrewing the knob after every session to clean it. Again, might not be a big deal for some, but I suspect many folks here would do the same thing.

To summarize, while the main objective of this tamper was certainly achieved, SAI clearly did not put enough emphasis on usability. In fact they broke the number one rule of applied design by putting form above function. Handles and knobs generally don't taper outward for good reason.

I have two of these (I was given one as a gift by my GF while mine was in the mail and one of them is going to go onto the Buy/Sell soon)

The way I use this tamp is simple. I adjusted it to minimal depth to keep the coffee from touching the shower screen. I go about everything roughly the same way I normally would, except that instead of adjusting for weight I adjust until the pressure required to bottom out the tamper on the edge of the basket feels close to what I learned 30 lbs of pressure felt like with a regular tamper. If the dose requires less pressure than usual, the shot tends to run a little fast. If the dose requires more force, the shot tends to run a little slower or require longer preinfusion. I have had great results with this method. the time required for me to dial in a coffee went down, and I rarely have an uneven pour. I will say I believe it is important with these tampers to get distribution even and keep the top of the coffee fairly level before tamping(which I always do anyway with a little mini whisk)

I never adjust the tamper, even if I switch baskets. I can adjust flow with grind, and if I think the coffee needs a larger adjustment I will switch baskets, but that only needs to happen once for a new coffee and it takes 2 seconds.

Honestly how often even with a regular tamper were you guys changing the depth of your tamp? Hasn't the point always been to learn the depth you need for your machine(hence the lines etched around many tamper bases), and to become skilled at tamping level and to the right pressure? Now you take away depth and levelness, all you have to do is adjust for pressure and you're golden.


So that was long winded, I'm sure some people want to control more variables, this is just the system I developed and its been working out pretty damn well.

Hope everyone gets to experiment and enjoy some great coffee today.