maxbmello wrote:The BDB and Vario would fit nicely in your budget, could produce good espresso and is mostly forgiving. However, there will always be some fiddling with the grind setting, dose amount, etc. so it won't be a set and forget type setup, but in the espresso game, nothing really is. The ease of use for both of these machines is very user friendly, and has a lot of features for the price. If you are looking for a more robust build, the Profitec 300 looks to be a good option, but I don't have any experience with it. You do lose the volumetric dosing and built in timer though. Most people who use the BDB on these forums don't use the volumetric dosing anyway, but your FIL might want that to make it a little easier.

Good luck with your search!

Ok. I was under the impression that Brevilles weren't great machines in terms of build quality and reliability. Several people have recommended them in this thread, so it seems that may be underestimating them.

One minor issue is that I was hoping to buy this machine and mine (VBM Domobar Super Rotary) from the same vendor and have been talking with 1st-line who doesn't sell the BDB.

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:There's also the Quickmill Silvano. It's a hybrid machine that, in some ways, behaves Ike a double boiler. It has a brew boiler and a separate thermoblock for steaming. It also has a PID for temperature control and a built in shot timer. It's also quite compact and was favorably reviewed by home barista. Link below. Although it's not the kind of machine you'd want to steam many back-to-back milk drinks. But paired with a Vario it would be a pretty compact, countertop friendly setup. I think Chris' Coffee worked directly with Quickmill to create this machine. So they'd be a good source for detailed information.

HB review
Quick Mill Silvano Review

Chris coffee
https://www.chriscoffee.com/Silvano-by- ... -a-evo.htm

Thanks for the recommendation. Yes, I spoke with MacKenzie at Chris' coffee and he suggested the Silvano as well. From what I remember though, the home-barista review claimed that the machine was not very forgiving, which made me rethink it as an option. I'll give them a call to get their opinion, however. (I was hoping to buy this machine along with a VBM Domobar Super for myself from the same vendor, but Chris doesn't sell VBM. It's not critical that I buy from the same place, though the discount would be nice

I think the BDB gets a bad wrap on this website and others in terms of reliability and build quality. Have there been some lemons and issues? Sure, but look at any other machine on the market that cost even more. Mechanical things will have some issues from time to time. That being said, I think there are many happy owners of their machines that have been going strong for quite a while. The 920 has worked out many of the issues found in earlier machines, AND the customer service from Breville is top notch, so it should not be of concern. In terms of ease of use, features, and drink quality, there is no other machine on the market that can beat it for the price. For a beginner barista, or someone who does not want to fuss with it too much like your FIL, I think it would be a good fit. Others will chime in about horror stories with their machines, or the fact that they are made in China, blah blah blah, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. At the end of the day, decide what is most important to you (ease of use, stable temps, forgiveness, looks, build quality, price, etc.) and go with that.

As for purchasing 2 machines with the same vendor, you are out of luck in that regard if you are set on the VBM. I know Clive Coffee carries the BDB along with higher end machines that you might be interested in, and they have a stellar reputation for service.

If steam is important, I would probably avoid the Silvano. It uses a thermoblock to produce steam, and for around the same price, you could get a true DB in the Breville, or Pofitec 300.

maxbmello wrote:Profitec 300 looks to be a good option, but I don't have any experience with it. You do lose the volumetric dosing and built in timer though. Most people who use the BDB on these forums don't use the volumetric dosing anyway, but your FIL might want that to make it a little easier.

I'm sure this is what you meant, but just to clarify, the Pro 300 has a shot timer just like the BDB, but it does not have the timed auto-start like the BDB. This is mostly negated by the quick heat up time, but I still miss it sometimes.

mwalter wrote:Thanks. I'll certainly consider the 300. I've read good things about that machine and the Profitecs in general.

I've read mixed reviews about the Brevilles in that they are more appliance-grade machines. It seems that I'm mistaken given all the recommendations in this thread.

A handful of individuals tend to say very negative things about it. The community here seems much more open minded than another forum where that type of product is almost universally dismissed even though it has proven itself long ago as a great machine that has excellent temp stability. The build quality is certainly not the same as a commercial unit or many of the other prosumer level machines, but you will have to spend thousands more to match its temp stability and feature set.

Yes, I did mean on/off timer, not shot counter. Even with the fast warmup time, I really appreciate having the machine nice and temp stable when I come downstairs every morning. Would not be a dealbreaker for me though when looking at other machines, especially since you can buy an external programable timer that would have even more features (weekday/weekend differences, on/off multiple times a day, etc.)

mwalter wrote:Thanks. I'll certainly consider the 300. I've read good things about that machine and the Profitecs in general.

I've read mixed reviews about the Brevilles in that they are more appliance-grade machines. It seems that I'm mistaken given all the recommendations in this thread.

They definitely are more appliance grade machines, I also own a Breville Infuser and it so far has not given me a lick of grief and I can get a pretty good latte out of it as well. It is slow, but it also has some nice little features. For the price of the machine I can't really complain. But if I was being honest, and money wasn't an issue, I would go with the Pro 300 and a great grinder. The slow steaming on the Breville machines is a downer if you are making multiple lattes.