Used Rocket Evoluzione v2 vs new Premium PID Plus v3

#1: Post by **opsb** » January 17th, 2016, 9:48 pm

Hi

I'm looking at buying my first espresso machine and want to jump in with a great machine that will be suitable for a newbie.

My local brewer has a Rocket Evoluzione v2 that they use when doing catering gigs, this is a small sideline they run so they haven't used it that much (they've done two gigs in the last 6 months). Prior to that it was used at a high end furniture store. It seems in good working order, they've made me a very nice espresso with it and the pressure seems good at least. As they don't use it much anymore they're looking to get rid of it so I've asked them for a price (should hear back about the price tomorrow).

I've also seen a new Giotto v3 Plus PID model going for 1250 euros/$1363.52 which seems like a good price. It's got the vibe pump instead of the rotary on the Evoluzione but has the PID. Obviously it depends on the offered price of the Evoluzione a little bit but both will be within my budget so I'm wondering which would be the better option?

My understanding so far is that the main advantage of the Rotary pump is that it's quieter and is far more robust than the vibe pump. In terms of making coffee though it's not going to make any difference to the quality (and I can probably live with the louder vibe pump as I'll only be making a few coffees a day). The PID seems to give you better control over pressure/temperature but I'm not sure how much difference it would make in practice.

What do you think? Which machine would you go for? Which factors should I pay more attention to?

Many thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

#2: Post by **jwCrema** » January 17th, 2016, 11:15 pm

I used to believe a PID would give me control. Then I discovered that the taste of the espresso was what controlled me. My Cremina doesn't have a PID and it never have one. Having temperature/pressure information is helpful, and there are many ways to obtain it.

It would depend on the price they are offering the v2 at, but I would be very interested in the v2

#3: Post by HB » January 17th, 2016, 11:46 pm

opsb wrote:What do you think?

For future reference, please don't cross-post your questions to HB. Why is cross-posting strongly discouraged? provides the rationale behind this policy. Those responding to this thread may wish to review opsb's thread on CoffeeGeek to avoid needlessly repeating previously proposed suggestions.

opsb wrote:I'm looking at buying my first espresso machine and want to jump in with a great machine that will be suitable for a newbie... Which machine would you go for? Which factors should I pay more attention to?

I recommend you review How to choose an espresso machine and grinder at the "right" price as well as Heat Exchanger vs. Double Boiler Espresso Machines. From what I've observed, newbies strongly prefer double boiler espresso machines for their simplicity. I haven't compared the two models you're considering, but they're both heat exchanger E61s, so their learning curve will be similar. Based on the information you've provided, I would recommend either getting the used one on the assumption you'd sell it for the same price if it doesn't work out, or skipping both and choosing a double boiler E61 instead.

January 18th, 2016, 1:11 am

Something that I'm particularly interested in is making good steamed milk. Will the rotary/vibe pump or PID have any impact there?

#5: Post by HB » January 18th, 2016, 8:19 am

No. They have the same 1.8L boiler (see "Additional Information" for Premium Plus with PID and Evoluzione), so they'll steam similarly. According to specifications, the Evoluzione has 1200W versus the PPP's 1350W. That's a negligible difference.

#6: Post by **h3yn0w** » January 18th, 2016, 10:57 am

You didn't say how much you could get the v2 for. That is a big factor.

PID on an HX machine has little benefit, so I would not factor that in to my decision. The v2 comes with a very good Sirai pressure stat and steaming performance will be identical.

On the one hand you have Rotary pump and a cheaper price, with less depreciation to occur with the v2 purchase.

On the other hand you are getting a brand new machine which you can be sure is cared for well from day 1, but at a higher cost, with the v3.

For me personally I would lean towards the used v2 if I was sure it was in good condition and cared for well, and it was priced well.

#7: Post by **altiplano** » January 20th, 2016, 12:20 am

I would get the used Evo assuming it's well cared for and lightly used. If you buy new I wouldn't worry about the added expense of a double boiler... HX machines perform as well with less to go wrong.

January 20th, 2016, 8:17 am

I've just been to have another look at the machine. They seem to have taken good care of it however one thing that I did notice was that when the main tap (the one for the actual coffee - not sure what the correct term is) is opened the pressure hits a little over 8bar and then after about 2 seconds shoots up to 9bar. Is this expected behaviour or is it a sign that there's some wear in the pump? (I've read that the vanes in the rotary pump can become worn and allow some seepage).

The price they've come up with by the way is 950euros and the machine was bought in Jan 2014.

#9: Post by **trombahonker** » January 20th, 2016, 9:03 am

Yes that's normal behavior. 8.5-9.5 is good pressure, don't worry about little differences there.

950 euro is a good price.

#10: Post by **monkeybongo** » January 26th, 2016, 3:06 pm

opsb wrote:I've just been to have another look at the machine. They seem to have taken good care of it however one thing that I did notice was that when the main tap (the one for the actual coffee - not sure what the correct term is) is opened the pressure hits a little over 8bar and then after about 2 seconds shoots up to 9bar. Is this expected behaviour or is it a sign that there's some wear in the pump? (I've read that the vanes in the rotary pump can become worn and allow some seepage).

The price they've come up with by the way is 950euros and the machine was bought in Jan 2014.

I would go with the used machine if they could drop the price a little more or if they included some extras like tamper, milk jugs, knockbox, etc. Otherwise I would go with the piece of mind with the new one because it sounds like a good deal as well.