The true cost of espresso equipment - Page 2

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AssafL
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#11: Post by AssafL »

OldNuc wrote:I would stipulate the same is true of Mercedes-Benz technical service manuals for 30 year old M-B cars. If you do not have the secret handshake and speak old high level German they are not interested.

The cost of continuing customer support long after any warranty has expired does add to the up front cost but it is worth it when purchasing what is nominally considered high cost limited appeal equipment.
There is a flip side: nothing irks me as much as throwing away a perfectly good piece of equipment due to a small defect coupled with planned obsolescence. Especially if I liked whatever it was.

If a TV screen's T-board fails I'll buy another. If a voltage regulator does (as in my JL audio did) and I am left hanging (as JL again, did), I'll never ever buy another one of their products.

The thought of throwing away something good and that I like just haunts me. Ergo I don't buy Sony anymore.
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

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AssafL
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#12: Post by AssafL »

Marcelnl wrote:I have spent some time in high end audio and high price tags are only minimally affected by materials used, but a small increase in material cost adds a lot to the price tag. High cost factors are the hours spent tinkering, we found that we were unable to ever factor in all the time spent on R&D, once that is done and not factored in the cost structure for f.e consumer audio stuff is like 15% of the price is material, the rest is profit for the factory, importer, distributor and/or retailer and some taxes and s&h left and right. I assume it's no different with espresso machines, which are also not made in huge quantities.

I gave up making those comparisons, if it's worth it and I can afford I buy it, if I cannot afford it I'll try a DIY solution or buy second hand following the motto: a good quality used product is better than a crap cheap product which works well for me.
My whole audio chain is DIY, and still costly, as I'm lacking the machining equipment (eeerr and skills) I chose used/vintage espresso equipment.
I make all my loudspeakers (talk about one field where DIY is ~1/100 to 1/10 of the price for a reasonable speaker), and used to design and make all my amplifiers and preamps and D/A converters. Actually until I found Bryston, which is an example of a company where the price (albeit severe) is also "reasonable" - and by "reasonable" I mean I could probably build it cheaper, but not as good and not MUCH cheaper (not with the components they use).

They sell to the audiophile market but also target pro audio which I think limits their ability to charge the weird prices that the hi-end audio world finds reasonable. They also sell a rather high number of units which allows the R&D costs to be spread around. Lastly, they buy stuff they don't make like the D/A and A/D cards from the likes of Momentum Data Systems, which is a really hi-end development board vendor that is not really meant for consumer apps (at ~$700-$1000 a board). In line with Pro audio (but not like Harman) their service is top notch and I would buy all my audio gear from them if I could.

Same goes for LM - if they made refrigerators I'd buy one.
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

Marcelnl
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#13: Post by Marcelnl »

I know Bryston, and understand what you mean but even considering all of that I would not buy from them as my sound profile is totally different with vintage tube designs and all that...

Would not buy a faema fridge either so it's not personal :wink: I'm picky...

I think that the cost of goods is one thing, duration of use is indeed another....my faemina now is 62 years old and worth more than when I bought it, I plan on using it for decades more...
LMWDP #483

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AssafL
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#14: Post by AssafL »

Marcelnl wrote:....my faemina now is 62 years old and worth more than when I bought it, I plan on using it for decades more...
62 years ago, someone (possibly long gone) in Italia with pride in his work and confident hands put your Faema together.

He should be just as proud in having built it as you are for keeping it running. Gotta love it.
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

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