Adapting a Drum to Air Roaster profiling queston

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
BenKeith
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#1: Post by BenKeith »

In an endeavor to advance my roasting knowledge and skills I am working with profiling. I have been primarily using Brazilian beans since that is a bean I like and familiar with. I started this adventure using a profile that was meant for a drum roaster and I'm using an air roaster. I have the control capability that I can copy that profile precisely through all phases and I try to keep the air flow to a minimum, just enough to keep good bean movement. The profile I've been working with has a total time of 11:40 to 414 degrees at EOR. The beans have been OK but seem to be missing something and I'm losing 18% to 19% moisture so I decided to try going back to my usual shorter roast times by using the same percentages in time that the 11:40 roast hit all the phases, white bean, toast/cinnamon beans etc and setup a profile that ended in 8:20 at 414 degrees but the white stage in 34% of the total time, toast/cinnamon in 51% of the time etc, exactly as they are in the 11:40 roast. Doing this, my moisture loss is much closer to what I would expect at 14.83%.

Am going about this in the right way, or are those that really know what they are doing sitting back LYAO at the way I'm chasing this rabbit?

Now, there is one area I have a bit of a problem and having to go by past experience with the setup. Between the noise of the roaster and my hearing is to the point that over the past few months, I can not hear the cracks. I even ordered a uno-directional shotgun mic to try and still can't hear them. I've been using this roaster for several years with the same bean probe in the same location and in the past, FC has always come between about 385 and 395 degrees, depending on the bean so I'm having to that and the appearance of the beans to make an assumption of when FC is.

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another_jim
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#2: Post by another_jim »

About ten years ago, I blind tasted identical bean temperature profiles from air and drum roasters -- the tastes were easily distinguished for washed beans (not so easily for naturals, where they fell with the cup to cup variation). After setting up a franken air roaster (with adjustable insulation), I was able to get identical bean and environmental profiles for the two; and the roasts were indistinguishable.

The rate per degree difference at which heat transfers from environment to bean is determined by the airflow. So if two roasts have identical bean and environmental profiles, they also have the same effective airflow (i.e. the same convective or wind chill effect). But if you just have the same bean profile; you do not have enough information to predict the taste.
Jim Schulman

BenKeith (original poster)
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#3: Post by BenKeith (original poster) »

Yea, I'm sure the airflow is my problem because I don't see any way a professional grade drum roaster would have a 18%-19% moisture loss with a 414 degree roast. That's why I've tried to keep mine at a minimum, but I can't slow mine down anymore without the beans just basically sitting in one pile and a few being blown out of the middle. I might also be shooting myself in the foot using minimum size roast to keep from wasting too many beans.

The roaster I'm using came out of the box as an iRoast2, which only had about a 100 to 120 gram capability, even though they claimed 150 and I'm trying to use 120 gram roast. Well, the roast chamber, blower motor and housing are about the only things left of that original iR2 and now 175 easily achieved and it will do 200 gram roast but the roast chamber gets a little crowded with that.

In the past I've always setup for approx. 8 1/2 minute drip and approx. 9 1/2 minute espresso roast. Now everybody seems to be saying slow down and extend the drying phase, out to as much as six minutes and more and use much lower development RoR's, like 5 to 7 minutes. At the same time though, everybody I've read up on doing this is using drum roasters. Well, doing that is not possible, or should I say, is not going to make very good coffee with an air roaster and 8 1/2 to 9 1/2 minute roast.

So, it looks like I've either got to shorten my time or find a way to reduce air flow even more to keep from sucking too much moisture out of my beans. Since I don't see how I can go with less air flow, I thought I would try reducing times and see how that does after the beans have rested some and can taste them. I guess I could also throw 200 grams in it and see what that does, but I sure hate wasting that many beans if it doesn't work. Yea, I know, 200 grams is nothing compared to what a lot of ya'll have to use as a minimum sample roast but hey, 200 grams is three weeks of coffee for me.

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Almico
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#4: Post by Almico »

I use an air roaster; and for the most part go by the basics of drum profiles as guidance because that's really all that is available. For the most part I am extremely happy with my roasts. I play around with roasts from 11 minutes to 16 minutes using Rao's percentage suggestions.

One curiosity I have is the difference between air roasting and drum roasting during the first 2 minutes. Drums charge at 300-400* and air roasters at room temperature (at least for the first roast of the day). In a drum roaster, beans are exposed to very high temperatures immediately. In air roasters, the temperature increases more gradually. But my BT seems to be the same as drum roasters at their turning point and ramp similarly from there. So what affect does the first 1-2 minutes have on the final result? I'm just not sure.

BenKeith (original poster)
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#5: Post by BenKeith (original poster) »

I've done it both ways. With no beans in mine, I let the bean temp probe get to about 275F and load the beans. That will usually give me about 150-160F at the turn in about 30-35 seconds and at the turn, I have to manually cut the heat way back so I can shoot for 180F to hit right at the one minute mark and then let the PID take over so it hits 300F in four, 320F in Five, 340F in six and 398F in 9:20 and 414 in 11:40. I'm also making sure my colors are matching these same points. The only thing is, not being able to hear the cracks, I have to watch the beans and monitor the smell closely, and just guess I'm several beans into the first crack at 398F. In the past, when I could hear them, I've never had a roast that I didn't hit FC by at least 395F, and normally sooner. I'm reducing my air several times during the roast to try and keep bean movement to bare minimum and only running about 75% during the development, but I'm still losing over 18% moisture and I know that's hurting me on that light of a roast. The coffee is a smooth cup, low acid, fair amount of body, just no real flavor to speak of. I use an aeropress with 19 grams of fairly fine ground coffee to make an 11oz cup and it's very drinkable, just bland, nothing there that gets your attention.

I did two roast yesterday, one just like I described above with 18.7% loss, and one starting off with the beans in the chamber and took it to 414F in 8:20 with 14.8% loss. I'm giving those a couple days and will compare them. One thing I did find out, cool down doesn't take long at all in a 35 degree garage.

Well, I also roasted and Ethiopian with an eight minute profile I've used on it in the past that I stopped in 8:40 @ 418F just to see how it would do . I just cupped that and it was like sipping a red wine. Almost don't even taste like coffee so I definitely can't say it doesn't have any flavor.