Sour Espresso - At wit's end - Page 5
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Bret
- Posts: 611
- Joined: 8 years ago
Seattle Coffee gear did a quick test changing the pre-infusion parameters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxY_hG8NwRg
For the same coffee and no grind changes, etc. they found that changing the pressure was not a huge factor, but the timing was much more noticeable. So I played with this on mine, found that dropping to 55% pressure made what is probably an imaginary, placebo effect in the positive direction, but shifting from 7 seconds to 15 seconds made a dramatic difference: pulls thru the bottomless portafilter were much more consistent, thicker, with a better overall flavor (to my untrained taste).
Another thing I saw somewhere (I think in some videos posted on HB) was a barista speaking at a event/class. She suggested pulling a shot and sampling the espresso repetitively as it fell from the portafilter (passing a spoon thru it) so one could see the dramatic changes in the flavor of the shot from start to finish. So I tried it, and it is dramatic: I was dealing with shots that were too bitter for my taste, and found roughly when the bitterness started, and when it became extremely bitter. It has helped me tune things. I read somewhere else that some baristas will skip the first moments of the shot, keeping the sour bit out of the shot.
For me, the extremely sour and extremely bitter were both so unpleasant in my mouth that I didn't linger with them to discern the differences. They both tasted really harsh to me. Is it possible that it is really bitterness you taste at the end of a 71 second pull?
It sounds like you have tried a lot of things. I'd consider getting very rigorous: choose a dose weight/grind that lets you get the right physical amount in the basket, lets you get a consistent tamp (nutation seemed to be the right way to go based on your original post) and pick an output weight for the shot. Eg. 18 g in, 30g out. Don't worry about the taste yet. Have enough of the coffee on hand for a lot of pulls all in one go. Plan to 'waste' a bag of coffee at least.
maybe try the sampling during pull trick, see what you learn. Then, change only the output weight, up and down. Pick the best trend (e.g.. 36 g out tastes better than 30g, or maybe 25g does.. Lock that in, then go up and down with the grind, see which way the flavor goes. Pick one and lock it down. Adjust the pre-infusion time up from default 7s (I think that is the default on the BDBs, it might be
up to 10s and try that. Then to 15s. Maybe a run at 5 seconds, another run with 0 s of pre-infusion. Pick the best tasting time and lock that down.
Rinse repeat for the temperature. I wouldn't worry overmuch about what a specific temp is at a specific spot in the portafilter: you care about a consistent result not an absolute temp number. The BDB is good for this: you get a consistent, repeatable temp. So if you find that setting 197 or 200 or 205 is best, it really won't matter what the precise temp is at the surface of the puck. You are going for best taste, not best metrics.
The cool thing about our BDBs is that we can adjust the pre-infusion and the temperature easily.
I spent a couple or three hours and used up a pound of beans going thru this process all in one go. It really helped me. I still have not achieved a 'sweet chocolatey caramel" shot from coffee that everyone describes that way (I think my tastebuds really react to any amount of bitterness). I mostly make milk drinks, but this this approach got me to shots that now require ¼ the amount of sweetener to my taste, and I occasionally drink a latte with no sweetener at all. That is HUGE for me. I can really taste the difference between coffees now, where before a lot of them were just uniformly awful tasting to me without added sweetener at levels that probably made any subtle distinctions between blends/roasts hard to detect.
I just got a bag each of Redbird Espresso and Sweet Blue. I made a single dose latte from each this morning, could easily distinguish (but probably not describe) the difference between them, and felt that the Sweet Blue might have been the best latte I have ever had. I'm going to compare it to my locally available fresh roast tomorrow, and I am rooting for the local roast for a lot of reasons, but I am a bit concerned that I am going to have to be ordering a lot more of the sweet blue..... (and, no, straight it does not taste sweet at all to me).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxY_hG8NwRg
For the same coffee and no grind changes, etc. they found that changing the pressure was not a huge factor, but the timing was much more noticeable. So I played with this on mine, found that dropping to 55% pressure made what is probably an imaginary, placebo effect in the positive direction, but shifting from 7 seconds to 15 seconds made a dramatic difference: pulls thru the bottomless portafilter were much more consistent, thicker, with a better overall flavor (to my untrained taste).
Another thing I saw somewhere (I think in some videos posted on HB) was a barista speaking at a event/class. She suggested pulling a shot and sampling the espresso repetitively as it fell from the portafilter (passing a spoon thru it) so one could see the dramatic changes in the flavor of the shot from start to finish. So I tried it, and it is dramatic: I was dealing with shots that were too bitter for my taste, and found roughly when the bitterness started, and when it became extremely bitter. It has helped me tune things. I read somewhere else that some baristas will skip the first moments of the shot, keeping the sour bit out of the shot.
For me, the extremely sour and extremely bitter were both so unpleasant in my mouth that I didn't linger with them to discern the differences. They both tasted really harsh to me. Is it possible that it is really bitterness you taste at the end of a 71 second pull?
It sounds like you have tried a lot of things. I'd consider getting very rigorous: choose a dose weight/grind that lets you get the right physical amount in the basket, lets you get a consistent tamp (nutation seemed to be the right way to go based on your original post) and pick an output weight for the shot. Eg. 18 g in, 30g out. Don't worry about the taste yet. Have enough of the coffee on hand for a lot of pulls all in one go. Plan to 'waste' a bag of coffee at least.
maybe try the sampling during pull trick, see what you learn. Then, change only the output weight, up and down. Pick the best trend (e.g.. 36 g out tastes better than 30g, or maybe 25g does.. Lock that in, then go up and down with the grind, see which way the flavor goes. Pick one and lock it down. Adjust the pre-infusion time up from default 7s (I think that is the default on the BDBs, it might be
up to 10s and try that. Then to 15s. Maybe a run at 5 seconds, another run with 0 s of pre-infusion. Pick the best tasting time and lock that down.Rinse repeat for the temperature. I wouldn't worry overmuch about what a specific temp is at a specific spot in the portafilter: you care about a consistent result not an absolute temp number. The BDB is good for this: you get a consistent, repeatable temp. So if you find that setting 197 or 200 or 205 is best, it really won't matter what the precise temp is at the surface of the puck. You are going for best taste, not best metrics.
The cool thing about our BDBs is that we can adjust the pre-infusion and the temperature easily.
I spent a couple or three hours and used up a pound of beans going thru this process all in one go. It really helped me. I still have not achieved a 'sweet chocolatey caramel" shot from coffee that everyone describes that way (I think my tastebuds really react to any amount of bitterness). I mostly make milk drinks, but this this approach got me to shots that now require ¼ the amount of sweetener to my taste, and I occasionally drink a latte with no sweetener at all. That is HUGE for me. I can really taste the difference between coffees now, where before a lot of them were just uniformly awful tasting to me without added sweetener at levels that probably made any subtle distinctions between blends/roasts hard to detect.
I just got a bag each of Redbird Espresso and Sweet Blue. I made a single dose latte from each this morning, could easily distinguish (but probably not describe) the difference between them, and felt that the Sweet Blue might have been the best latte I have ever had. I'm going to compare it to my locally available fresh roast tomorrow, and I am rooting for the local roast for a lot of reasons, but I am a bit concerned that I am going to have to be ordering a lot more of the sweet blue..... (and, no, straight it does not taste sweet at all to me).
