Hunting for first espresso machine/grinder with three different budgets

#1: Post by **The Imp** » September 28th, 2015, 6:44 pm

So... here we go... again for many of you. I am sure you have ready a gazillion posts like mine, but I am also sure many of you do take the time to answer in a very constructive way. I have been reading/watching a lot of information on this, but I have always thought that there is not better source that the sound advice of people with experience.

I am a 95% espresso drinker with the occasional milk drink, mostly when I am entertaining guests. This has taken me to consider a more sophisticated machine like a double boiler or a heat exchanger. I have contemplated many scenarios that go from the routine Rancilio Silvia to a Rocket R56. I know that there is a huge difference budget wise, but I have always been of the thinking that it is better to invest a little more once than finding yourself wanting something better in a very short period of time. This is why now, more than ever, I am at an impasse on my decision making.

Having said all this, I have narrowed it down to 3 scenarios. Can you give me your hardware recommendation for each one of them and where I could get the best deal for it in your experience?

1) Basic setup, machine+grinder, budget +/- $1500. This is where the Rancilio Silvia/Rocky pairing came into play, but the Silvia+PID is close to $1000, which most definitely can get me a better entry level machine. Pros: budget Cons: getting tired way too soon and finding myself wanting an upgrade sooner than expected.

2) Mid setup, machine+grinder, budget +/- $2000. I have not worked up a combo like in the first option but I am sure I can fit a very decent heat exchanger here. Pros: I would be set for a good period of time. Cons: I would be out of money for a while.

3) Bare bones, just a grinder, budget wise I am open to suggestions. This is the most painful one of them all, getting a good grinder and save some extra money for a good machine afterwards. For this one I would like your advice on a solid grinder that I could pair up in the future with a nice higher end machine. A suggestion on the machine is also appreciated. Pros: not leaving myself with no money for other matters, Cons: having to painfully look at my grinder all alone and pairing it up with a Bialetti Moka or Brika.

#2: Post by **dominico** » October 1st, 2015, 3:24 am

Without a doubt invest in the grinder first. Are you looking solely for new equipment? Many home baristas find good deals on used commercial grinders: ive ben highly imores sed by the Mazzerare Robur, and lots of cafes in my area sport Super Jollys . Or you could go with a Titan conical hand grinder like the HG1 or the Pharos. Is simultaneous steaming an important feature? Because if you are entertaining for guests a Silvia probably won't be able to keep up with demands for milk drinks.

#3: Post by **ira** » October 1st, 2015, 3:33 am

If you're willing to be totally manual till you can afford the pieces you really want, it's hard to do much better than a Pharos or maybe a Lido-E, an EspressoForge and a kettle of some sort. No ,milk drinks, but it sounds like straight espresso is way more important to you.

Ira

#4: Post by **dominico** » October 1st, 2015, 3:48 am

Agreed, the ultimate bargain "cafe quality" straight espresso setup would be either a Lido E or Pharos grinder with an EspressoForge and kettle, or a used Pavoni if you get a good deal on a working unit for sub $300. The Pavoni would also provide simultaneous steam capability but would be harder to temp manage. Either way making a shot would be an involved, hands on process, for me the prep is part of the joy.

#5: Post by **jwCrema** » October 1st, 2015, 7:30 am

Hand grinding works great for the morning shot with one or two people, however I find an electric grinder to be more practical when more than 4 people are to be served.

I occasionally watch CraigsList and see some amazing deals go by for small commercial grinders being sold. Although they are used, I nearly bought a few because they were such a great price. But, my wife would not understand this, so I didn't pull the trigger. Anyway, you might want to consider the used market as a way to get more for your buck.

#6: Post by **KmanChu** » October 1st, 2015, 8:18 am

I have spent about three months obsessing at similar price points. For heat exchanger machine and grinder at the $2k price point I got a quote of just under $2k for the Profitec 500 and the Quamar m80e from WLL. I think this would be tough to beat in the new market. (They were running some coupons that took 125 off the Pro500 and 50 off the quamar. I think those coupons just expired but you should be able to get similar deal now.)

Entertaining is my issue, I am thinking of going DB just so that I can pull multiple shots without having to wait as much for recovery.

#7: Post by **lawn_wrangler** » October 1st, 2015, 8:14 pm

The Imp wrote:
I am a 95% espresso drinker with the occasional milk drink, mostly when I am entertaining guests. This has taken me to consider a more sophisticated machine like a double boiler or a heat exchanger. I have contemplated many scenarios that go from the routine Rancilio Silvia to a Rocket R56. I know that there is a huge difference budget wise, but I have always been of the thinking that it is better to invest a little more once than finding yourself wanting something better in a very short period of time. This is why now, more than ever, I am at an impasse on my decision making.

Having said all this, I have narrowed it down to 3 scenarios. Can you give me your hardware recommendation for each one of them and where I could get the best deal for it in your experience?

1) Basic setup, machine+grinder, budget +/- $1500. This is where the Rancilio Silvia/Rocky pairing came into play, but the Silvia+PID is close to $1000, which most definitely can get me a better entry level machine. Pros: budget Cons: getting tired way too soon and finding myself wanting an upgrade sooner than expected.

2) Mid setup, machine+grinder, budget +/- $2000. I have not worked up a combo like in the first option but I am sure I can fit a very decent heat exchanger here. Pros: I would be set for a good period of time. Cons: I would be out of money for a while.

3) Bare bones, just a grinder, budget wise I am open to suggestions. This is the most painful one of them all, getting a good grinder and save some extra money for a good machine afterwards. For this one I would like your advice on a solid grinder that I could pair up in the future with a nice higher end machine. A suggestion on the machine is also appreciated. Pros: not leaving myself with no money for other matters, Cons: having to painfully look at my grinder all alone and pairing it up with a Bialetti Moka or Brika.

No one else can tell you which of your three scenarios to go with, but a couple specific comments may help.

If you go with scenario (1), most on this forum would recommend bypassing the aging Rancilio Rocky for the Baratza Vario (with the proviso that it should generally be used for espresso only and not too often for other brew methods).

Also, as a Silvia owner I would recommend you look at a few options $100-300 above Silvia PID so you can avoid the need to upgrade as soon, and get better build, better features, bigger boilers and reservoirs, steam when you need it, etc. Some examples are:

- Quick Mill Silvano (https://www.chriscoffee.com/Silvano-by- ... -a-evo.htm);
- Bezzera Unica (http://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/Bezzer ... 9p6627.htm);
- Expobar Office Lever (https://www.wholelattelove.com/products ... so-machine);
- Breville Dual Boiler.

Good luck!