Confused about basket size rating vs actual

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weebit_nutty
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#1: Post by weebit_nutty »

On my Creminas, my OEM double baskets takes 14-15grams of grounds to the rim before tamping. However now that I have LM baskets, I noticed a 14 is no where near the rim, more like 2/3rs the way. If I dose to the rim and level, it's closer to 20-21 grams of coffee. If I dose just 14g in this basket, it seems pretty empty and the shot is affected adversely because there is more disruptive agitation from teh showerhead hitting the puck from a farther distance. The puck looks a bit roughed up every time. When I do a full level and tamp, the puck looks really nice, but we're talking 20 grams of coffee, which is WAY concentrated when I'm trying to make a simple latte. Sure I can cut it off and use less of this concentrated ristretto syrup, but it's a waste of coffee.

Anyway someone wanna help sort this out ? I'm pretty new to the 58mm game.
You're not always right, but when you're right, you're right, right?

LukeFlynn
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#2: Post by LukeFlynn »

Which LM basket are you using? I use the Strada 17 gram and a 15 gram dose from my Major goes a tad above the rim. I no longer level my coffee with my finger or other apparatus, I use Matt Perger's method.. extremely fast and consistently nice pours. The stock Linea Mini double basket looks like it would work great with 14 grams of coffee..

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trumz
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#3: Post by trumz »

It's sometimes hard to put an actual figure on it because density of coffee depends on roast and also grind. Lately I've been playing with a Strada 14g basket (same size as VST 15g from what I gather) and some very lightly roasted Ethiopia Kochere. Dosing 15g would fill up the basket around half way and I wasn't getting good pours. I ended up using closer to 17g with good results.
Now, I ran out of that nice coffee and had some dark roast, slight sheen on the been and 17g would completetly overflow the basket. I had to coarsen the grind and lower the dose.

Vst says plus/minus a gram, but shoud it really be about volume? We should be aiming for around 2mm under the shower screen when using a vst, or am I completely off?

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keno
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#4: Post by keno »

weebit_nutty wrote:On my Creminas, my OEM double baskets takes 14-15grams of grounds to the rim before tamping. However now that I have LM baskets, I noticed a 14 is no where near the rim, more like 2/3rs the way. If I dose to the rim and level, it's closer to 20-21 grams of coffee. If I dose just 14g in this basket, it seems pretty empty and the shot is affected adversely because there is more disruptive agitation from teh showerhead hitting the puck from a farther distance. The puck looks a bit roughed up every time. When I do a full level and tamp, the puck looks really nice, but we're talking 20 grams of coffee, which is WAY concentrated when I'm trying to make a simple latte. Sure I can cut it off and use less of this concentrated ristretto syrup, but it's a waste of coffee.

Anyway someone wanna help sort this out ? I'm pretty new to the 58mm game.
The LM 14g basket, in my experience, works best with 16g which comes right up under the bottom of the ridge for the spring. No way I could fit anywhere close to 20g in that basket, maybe in the 17g basket. Note that the ideal weight in the basket will partly depend upon the roast level. Lighter roasted coffees are denser and will require more weight to achieve the same volume.

Read this article about precision baskets.
Vince Fedele wrote:Fill height is designed to be 2-mm below the group screen when evenly dispersed, settled and tamped. Generally speaking, you will reach this height when dosed loosely to fill the filter to its rim, settling, wiping excess off and finally tamping. The final tamped height will fall just below the bottom edge of the ridge line.

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weebit_nutty (original poster)
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#5: Post by weebit_nutty (original poster) »

That's a very good point, about the roast and grind density... I didn't think about that. So it seems these baskets usable volume were rated for a very fluffy grind that comes from more traditional espresso roasts (dark).

So for the third wave crowd maybe there needs to be a third wave basket. I'm tempted to pick of "the single" round bottom basket for this reason but have not heard anyone using it yet. It might be rubbish for all I know.

When I level the rim and tamp with my roast it is at the level of ridge.
You're not always right, but when you're right, you're right, right?

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keno
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#6: Post by keno »

You don't need a different basket for 3rd wave roasts, you just need to ignore the number on the basket and dose appropriately by volume whatever coffee you are using. For instance, if 17g gets you to the bottom of the ridge with a particular coffee then use 17g.

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weebit_nutty (original poster)
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#7: Post by weebit_nutty (original poster) »

That's the problem. We I do that I don't get a good shot with the LM basket. Too much distance from the shower head results in excessive agitation and uneven extraction.

None of this though applies to my Cremina 67. Ironically it is so much easier when you have full pressure control that levers offer vs using a pump machine.
You're not always right, but when you're right, you're right, right?

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keno
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#8: Post by keno »

weebit_nutty wrote:That's the problem. We I do that I don't get a good shot with the LM basket. Too much distance from the shower head results in excessive agitation and uneven extraction.
With 16g in the 14g LM basket my coffee comes right to the bottom of the ridge. If I lock the portafilter in the Linea Mini group and then remove it the screen screw just barely touches the coffee bed, which means there is about a 2mm gap between the coffee bed and shower screen.

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weebit_nutty (original poster)
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#9: Post by weebit_nutty (original poster) »

Thanks. I am now using 16g with Hayes Valley and it's worked out as you indciated. :) My issue is mainly because I was using BB's light-medium SO roasts.. For those, I ought to stick to drip brew as they were probably meant for.
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keno
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#10: Post by keno replying to weebit_nutty »

Here's a picture with 16g in the 14g basket, tamped and ready to go!

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