That is a BIG difference. I understand.

roxtc wrote:Sorry it was late but what I meant is a La Marzocco GS3 at 4000 - 4500. That's almost a difference of $5000 for a new machine with warranty in Canada.

Is this CAD or USD? If you can find one that's a pretty good price especially if it's less than couple years old. There ade quite a few updates over the years.
Just be ready for group head rebuild on the MP version.

roxtc wrote:
I didn't know that the 110v actually puts such a limit on a DB machines' ability to power both boilers. I should probably reconsider some quality HX machines.

The V2B, Lucca M58, Pro 700, and some other DBs can run both boilers if you change a setting in the PID and have them on a 20A circuit. It's not the voltage at issue; It is the amperage capacity of the circuit that limits boiler activity when set up for a 15A circuit. The Rocket R58 is not able to run both at the same time because the wattage of both boilers would exceed even a 20A circuit and I do not believe its PID is capable of enabling simultaneous heating of both boilers.

I have a Lucca M58 and both boilers run simultaneously on a 20A circuit. Some kitchens are already wired for 20A. I had to run a new circuit to mine. If you are unsure or not confident with home wiring, consult a licensed electrician.

My Pro 700 is on a 20A circuit but running in 15A mode where it toggles between the boilers. The recessed lighting in my kitchen already pulses slightly as is when the machine is on. If I were to enable 20A mode, would I expect even more pulsing? A flipped breaker?

SonVolt wrote:My Pro 700 is on a 20A circuit but running in 15A mode where it toggles between the boilers. The recessed lighting in my kitchen already pulses slightly as is when the machine is on. If I were to enable 20A mode, would I expect even more pulsing? A flipped breaker?

It will only trip the breaker if the circuit is being pressed beyond rated current. My Oracle flickered the lights just as bad as my M58 in 20A mode does. I wouldn't worry about that. If you have substantial dimming, that is an issue that you should have investigated by an electrician. It sounds like your recessed kitchen lighting is on the same "leg" as your machine. In my case it is my hall bath and kid's room that flicker. My kitchen lighting is on the other "leg" and doesn't flicker. Most US households have two 120V "legs" coming in to service the home circuits. People who are high end home theater nuts will go to great lengths to isolate lighting and other "noisy" electrical loads from the leg their home theater equipment is on. High current loads like espresso machines that cycle rather frequently highlight why.

Shife wrote:The V2B, Lucca M58, Pro 700, and some other DBs can run both boilers if you change a setting in the PID and have them on a 20A circuit. It's not the voltage at issue; It is the amperage capacity of the circuit that limits boiler activity when set up for a 15A circuit.

Of course -- it's always the current that trips a breaker. However, consider this. The Pro 700 has a 1200 W brew boiler and a 1400 W steam boiler. They could thus draw a total of 2600 W when operating simultaneously (and not counting the small draw for the pump and electronics).

A 15A circuit at 120V can deliver 15*120 = 1800W, which is clearly far from enough. Typically we want to operate at 80% or less than this value: 0.8*1800W = 1440W, which is sufficient for operating either of the boiler alone.

Using a 20A circuit, the maximum draw is 20*120 = 2400W (with a 80% value of 1920W). So the max value is still under the maximum draw from the two boilers operating simultaneously. Now, there is some leeway there as the breaker won't trip exactly at 20A, and it takes a sustained current to make it trip. The PID also makes the current draw variable. Still, operating both boilers simultaneously may be asking for trouble even on a 20A circuit and a breaker tripping is not out of the question.

So what is the simultaneous operation mode for if not for 20A? Well, in many European countries (including Germany), standard outlets run on 230V. This provides a maximum wattage of 3450W at 15 A -- or 2760 W for the 80% value. Perfectly safe to run both boilers simultaneously. So really this mode is for the European versions of these machines.

I was unaware the Pro 700 was pushing 2600W when running both boilers. That IS a problem. The manual doesn't address if this is somehow dealt with via the PID to allow usage on a 20A circuit or if you are correct that it is simply an option for those running on 220V. My M58 is only drawing 1900W with both boilers running.

If an individual has any question or concern regarding the use of a machine such as these, they should consult with a licensed electrician and discuss the electrical requirements of that machine and what steps may be necessary to use said machine.

A forum on the internet is a poor place to seek advice on home electrical questions. This is a good example as to why. I made an assumption about a product that could have negatively impacted someone with a compromised home wiring situation. Yikes.

This is why I am a big fan of preheating the incoming the brew water from the efficiency standpoint. That way you can get away with much smaller heating element. I suspect the Pro 700 needs that 1200 W to have decent thermal stability.
Keep in mind GS3 only has 500 W while Linea Mini only has 250W, heck even a Strada is only 800W for each brew group.