Posting in Tips & Techniques because I'm not sure what my issue is.

Last Friday my Vario was out of espresso beans but I desperately needed a shot. My Virtuoso still had a few handful of beans purchased two weeks ago from a local roaster who doesn't bother with roast dates. Instead of transferring some to my Vario I just set the Virtuoso somewhere in espresso range and ground about 16g. I was on the fine side but hey, I only have 4-5 clicks in the espresso range with my Vario. Tamped, pulled the shot.

OMG. God shot.

I've NEVER, in the 8 months I've been working hard EVERY day to pull shots with my new equipment (Pro 700 & Vario), achieved such a shot. It was SO far better than anything I had achieved it was not funny at all. Scratch that: I'm pretty sure this was the best shot I ever had, period. Including local cafés, and certainly including the café where I purchased the beans.

The shot tasted strongly of coffee, for starters. Beans where medium dark, not oily, but far from light. The shot was very sweet and full of great flavors. Sirupy because pulled on the ristretto side. Not bitter, not sour, not the metallic astringency to which I'm almost accustomed.

I'm very happy to see that it is possible to have such a shot using the Pro 700. I am astounded at having pulled the shot without any care whatsoever (old beans, non-espresso grinder, first try with the grind, no special care for tamping and flush except the routine).

The Virtuoso is not very powerful and struggled to grind the whole portion; I had to pause the grind half-way to let the motor cool down. But the only differences between my routine and what I did here was 1) using different beans and 2) using the Virutoso instead of the Vario. Beans, well, I plan on getting more (I'm done with them) but they were not especially fresh as said before. I know people will say I maybe prefer the brighter side of a conical grinder but --- I can assure you the difference was night and day, not subtle at all, and I wouldn't describe the shot as "brighter" anyway.

Could there be something seriously wrong with the Vario? Can burrs be misaligned and the grinder still seem to work properly? The grinder is new (a few months, under 100 lbs ground) so I cannot imagine the burrs are worn off.

In the mean time, I know what to do: I'll try the same beans side by side in the Vario and Virtuoso. I already tried a shot of Social's People's Liberation, and while I don't think the result was as good as with my local roaster's espresso blend, it was still better than what I got with the Vario. I will also inspect the burrs but I'm not sure what to look for exactly.

At least I have a target now...

It might help the experienced types here if you can provide the parameters of what you usually do and perhaps pictures of your vario burrs just in case. Best of luck!

That you stopped with a ristretto makes me think you pulled the for about 25 seconds to get 25ml? (from 16gr beans).

Since you are out of those beans I don't think another batch from even the same roaster (that does not bother with roasting dates ) will produce the same.

This can be very frustrating indeed. Once tasted it is hard to be completely satisfied with a normal good shot ... I produced some (!) of those shots on my Vesuvius - but not consequently. Much good shots, for sure. But not every one is a so-called "god-shot".

And there are so much parameters! Apart from the obvious you can control (sort, roast and age of coffee, weight, grind, tamp, temp and temp stability, water, pre-infusion/flow <gicleur> and pressureprofile) I find that the time of day matters as well as the weather. And that I can predict just only a really tiny small bit off its outcome. (The Vesuvius can play with the pressure off course, as well as with one of three gicleurs to influence the pre-infusion and extraction speed. I think a Slayer can do something similar with the pre-infusion needle valve?)

BTW I am not completely convinced that a flat temp throughout the shot is the best. Just as a pressure profile is playing with the extraction (this also happens with levers!) it might be that a certain hump/decline in temp helps to get just the right flavours (or not get the wrong ones - take your pick).

Repeat-ability and control are desirable off course - but on the other hand, it might be that you would not have had this shot at all if you would have done everything as you would have done normally...

Of course. I will take pics and post them as soon as I can but I'm in the process of comparing the two grinders with the same beans. It seems I was using a coarser grind on the Vario and dosing more. I'm back to the drawing board so to speak.

What I normally do:

- I like changing beans from time to time but mostly those are fresh roasted from reputed roasters in Canada (mostly Social, Pilot, 49th Parallel and Bridgehead). I seem to have better luck with the darkest roasts.

- I tried calibrating the Vario and I think it's well calibrated but I might be off. Mostly using the 2M to 2A range on it, but this of course is bean- and humidity-dependent. Currently I'm delving into the upper 1- range to try and match the grind I got from my Virtuoso at click #5-6 (over 40).

- I'm typically dosing 18g, pulling slightly on the short side with 30-32g shots. The amazing shot referred to above used less coffee as the grinder itself was out of steam, but I did not weigh it. I'd say 15-16g at most but the grind was finer and clumpier so it might have been denser than the output of my Vario. The shot was no more than the same weigh so at most 1:1 brew ratio.

- I typically aim for 28-30 seconds with the first drops around 6 seconds (the Pro 700 is E61 with a pressure ramp-up of about 4-5 s).

- As for distribution, the grind from the Vario is generally very fluffy / non-clumpy. I just gently tap on the side of the portafilter to have a more or less level surface to tamp. With the amazing shot above... I did nothing special, I was expecting a disaster and put zero thought on distributing the clumpy grounds. I tamp using a dynamometric tamper set at 30 lbs and currently equipped with a slightly convex base. I generally nutate a bit and it seems to help a bit with the Vario.

- Currently running the machine with defaults parameters (for Celsius mode, that is, 93C with a 14C brew boiler offset). I flush for 2-3 seconds before the shot to help heat up the group before the shot.

Shots are generally beautiful to look at, with tiger-striped crema, thick and sirupy. But they are generally too intense. Not sour, perhaps a tad on the bitter side but bitterness is not really the problem. They're just... offensive in a general manner, very astringent (leaving a dry mouth) with a kind of metallic aftertaste. The more offensive go right in the sink. Others can be interesting, and sometimes even enjoyable, but nothing compared to the god shot described above. In milk, I think most of the problem disappears and people generally like my cortados.

Will explore finer grind settings on the Vario and try to post pictures of the burrs. Thanks.

neutro wrote: Shots are generally beautiful to look at, with tiger-striped crema, thick and sirupy. But they are generally too intense. Not sour, perhaps a tad on the bitter side but bitterness is not really the problem. They're just... offensive in a general manner, very astringent (leaving a dry mouth) with a kind of metallic aftertaste.

This makes me wonder ... If I can make a suggestion?
besides trying a finer grind also
- reduce the dosage
- let the beans age a bit on purpose (I know this is upsetting for a lot of people ) to try to find the optimum age *for your taste*

You might also want to look at the graph /espresso-g ... tions.html
Dan's video also show the rule of thirds somewhere, you could experiment with that. (Put the shotglas under the spout after the espresso has been running for a second or so? Not very conventional, but hey - you might like it better!)

Slightly off-topic: this made me think of the art of distilling whisky where the distiller also parts the distilate in 3 parts, foreshots, whisky and feints. http://www.scotchwhiskyexperience.co.uk ... -terms.php

tohenk2 wrote: besides trying a finer grind also
- reduce the dosage

Time is lacking right now for extensive experiments but after all this, it looks like I was perhaps just grinding too coarse.

The great shot was from grinding very fine in the Virtuoso compared to the Vario. I'm trying to reach the same finesse with the Vario, and the last shot was somewhere around 1-F and *much* better than what I was accustomed to. I may have calibrated the Vario out of whack after all as I can't go much finer without re-calibrating.

Also it's all very confusing because relationship between grind setting and time seems to be far from linear. I would have thought I'd had choked the machine by now going a full coarse adjustment step finer. I also don't remember getting shots that good back then when I was exploring grind settings that could choke the machine.

I thought reaching a desired brew ratio in the correct time would indicate that the grind was all right, but evidently I was still way off. I still haven't reproduced the god shot mentioned above but I'm working with a different bean, and I'm sure pulling the best shot I ever had with those (Social People's Liberation).

What was the roaster/blend that produced that astounding shot?

I love the Liberation blend BTW.

It's a local roaster in Quebec City, Café Sobab. The blend is a "double crema" crowd pleaser with nutty and chocolate notes. Rather dark (sorry, I don't have the experience to tell a roast level just by eyeing the beans), but at least not oily, probably close to 49th Parallel Blue Sky.

I didn't feel the blend was noteworthy when tasted there (the espresso shot was pretty light) nor when I was preparing it in a moka pot. Adequate, but nothing out of the ordinary. That's partly why I was so taken aback with the shot. I should be able to get more this weekend (alas the café is on the other side of town).

Hi François,

A few thoughts:

1) You haven't mentioned the basket you're using. What is it? Perhaps 16g suits your basket better than 18g. But I'm speculating until we know your basket and its optimal dose. If your typical dose(18g) is not right for your basket, that can be counterproductive.

2) in addition, perhaps your Vario is not calibrated correctly and your Virtuoso happened to be in the right range when you pulled your "best shot". Your Vario sounds like it's too far into the coarse range. That might be why you need to go into the 1 macro range for espresso.

3) Does your Vario have the ceramic or metal burrs? For espresso you need ceramic in the Vario.

canuckcoffeeguy wrote: 1) You haven't mentioned the basket you're using. What is it? Perhaps 16g suits your basket better than 18g. But I'm speculating until we know your basket and it's optimal dose. I'd you're typical dose(18g) is not right for your basket, that can be counterproductive.

I'm using the double basket that came with the Profitec. Not sure what its nominal dose is (there's no marking on it). That being said, in the past months, I've tried doses from 14g to 20g with many different beans trying to improve the results. I'd say below 16g and the headspace becomes very large, and it's hard controlling the flow. Above 18g becomes difficult and 20g was pushing it for sure. 18g typically seems to fit the basket pretty well depending on the beans.

2) in addition, perhaps your Vario is not calibrated correctly and your Virtuoso happened to be in the right range when you pulled your "best shot". Your Vario sounds like it's too far into the coarse range. That might be why you need to go into the 1 macro range for espresso.

Indeed I think it's the case. Can the burrs be mounted incorrectly and the grinder still work? Last time I cleaned it I found it hard to put the top burrs back in place --- but they were locked in place using the tool so I thought I couldn't be wrong. But if the top burrs are somehow slightly off on one side, perhaps that could create an unequal distribution.

I've had experience with a grinder going bad when grinding manually with a Hario Skerton: the burrs wobbled (because the plastic piece holding the shaft got worn off) and this affected the taste with an AeroPress (upgrading to an electric conical that produced even grind fixed that). So I'm also wondering if something like this could be happening with the Vario. Not wobbly burrs of course but perhaps just a mis-aligned burr. I'll check that & recalibrate as soon as I have more than a few minutes to myself at home...