Since you're in the San Diego area, you are welcome to Check out my setup (Mahlkonig K30, VBM Domobar DB V4.0, and beans from the most local of all roasters - me). Send me a PM is you're interested and don't mind driving out of town to the outskirts of the backcountry. The bar is always open!

jitters wrote:
What I like about the Lucca M58 over Profitec Pro 700:
- Lever hot water and steam valves
- Symmetrical gauge, switch and indicator light groups on the front panel for each boiler
- Hefty portafilters with chrome trim and a bottomless instead of single
- Boiler drains
- 2 year warranty from Clive Coffee
What I don't like
- Cramped internal layout
- Some reports on this site of manufacturing issue - debris in the water path, incorrect PID settings.
- Big round PID display - just looks too big to me
- Side panels with heat vanes and a hole for pump pressure adjustment

Both the M58 and 700 are great machines. The 700 had some offset issues and a few M58 PIDs shipped out with default values. My machine had a small piece of debris in a solenoid but it was easily resolved. After a couple of months use I would continue to recommend the M58 and I am very happy with both my purchase and the customer service from Clive.

Thanks for the invite Dan. I'll IM you after I get my internet working again. It went out last night and Cox will be here tomorrow. Hard to navigate the site using my tiny phone.

Sounds good. I will have the VBM opened up next weekend to install a new vacuum breaker (mine is hissing and leaking, causing the boiler to refill several times a day and I am trying to fend off scale buildup and prevent excess water use). It is always good to have a peek at what the insides of the machine looks like and this one is pretty decent - way better than my nemesis/gateway drug Isomac Tea! Or we can just pull some shots. I always have some beans or you can bring some to try.

I haven't bought any beans from local roasters lately. Moto and Calabria have always been very dark in the past but they may have exited the 90s since. I have been meaning to get to Mostra for months but 70-hr work weeks and too many extracurricular activities have prevented it. I really like their Brazil cold brew and think they are probably turning out some quality beans.

I will c/p my point of view from another thread:

I can tell on which points i have made my mind and went for duetto:

-double wall, so cool on the outside
-integrated PID (can't stand the R58 removable PID)
-beafy and heavy built
-havent seen those machines in flesh but duetto and profitec are superior in built quality compared to other few (profitec cost roughly a 300eur more in europe)
-duetto 3 option for europe is 1400w steam heater and 1000w brew heater
-love the ergonomically rubber and angled portafilter
-good tamper comes with machine
-large cup heater space
-4 steam tips included
-love the beefy steam and water knobs
-i love that there is no switches on the front face and power switch and steam boiler switch are located at the sides

And there is more but just to give you an perspective that in my eyes duetto is the absolute winner, i like the R58 clean look and love german profitec engineering but considering all those points I will always come to duetto no matter what.

Ou and by the way, i saw some reviews and critics about duetto low cup clearance in matter of fact is THE ONLY one which can except a really large cups and on the go coffee mugs since the insert in drip tray is reversible and you get an almost 6 inch of room with bottomless PR.

Thanks, I will take a close look at the Duetto. It will be 2-3 months before I buy a machine. In the meantime, I am getting up to speed on water. Lots to learn there!

Gaius

- Hot side Panels where only an issue with earlier models, but since all DB Machines to day have isolated boiler, this isn't really an issue any longer.
- Integrated PID display is found on all E61-DB Machines except the R58, some of them clearly better looking then others, and some have the possibilities to set individual parameters for both boilers - Quickmill.
- How can you determine if a machine has a superior build quality over others, if you'll never seen all of them in reallife - I have seen the different models both on the outside and inside and the Duetto dos not have the best build quality, neither on the outside or the inside, but the lates version clearly has narrowed the gap on the build quality of the panels and driptray.
- Duettos biggest selling point is the preheated water circuit to the brewboiler, but the placement of the pumphead is less then ideal and the same goes for the PID display (in one of the hottest areas of the machine), and it's cup clearance is vey narrow in stock configuration.
- The Portafilters have been massively updated on some DB Machines, this is the Case with Duetto as well as the Vetrano 2B(evo)/M58, Duetto is angled that some people prefer.
- Quickmill also come stock with a real tamper.
- 4 hole tip is standard equipment on pretty much all db machines these days, some only comes stock with this other provides a 2 hole tip, and other provides a whole range of different tip.
- The hotwater and steam knobs are of the same design to those found on Quickmill - but the star handle found on Profitec is of equally high quality and the valves are non compressive on the Profitec.
- The no metal switches on the front panel of the Duetto is indeed a good design, and dos indeed giver a cleaner look, but the display and manometers dos unfortunately not follow in line with this.

We will all see things differently, but from an objective point of view, there really is no superior machine in this category, all of them have their advantage as well as disadvantages. The V2B has 5inch clearance with a naked Portafilter, and you don't need to reverse anything, and the driptray holds allot more water then any of the other models out there.