Cappas are just different drinks. A really great one needs an excellent shot and well steamed milk and the right proportions of both. A less-than-perfect cappa may be less off putting than a less-than-perfect shot. But I still think they should each be judged on their own merits.

Also one can pull shots differently for a capp. I might pull one a bit sour to cut through the milk. Or I might enjoy a roast slightly into second crack to emphasize chocolates and intensity. A good shot for a capp might be denser than I would like straight up.

I agree with Dave, though. Garbage with a milk mustache still tastes bad -- stale coffee, skunky robusta, funk, a burnt shot or burnt beans.

I split my shots every time , one for milk (4-5oz drink ) one for espresso.... This is easier to do with an ek43- with recipes along the lines of 20> 45-48g ...
As others have said. Milk sweetness and masks...
A great shot will shine in a capp too though.

spressomon wrote:It also depends on the milk ratio. Everyone, even at the trained pro barista level, makes a different cappuccino. 99% of the capps I've had in specialty coffee shops (yes even "3rd wave" shops) are closer to tradional lattes where you only taste a hint of coffee and mostly hot milk.

At home I make competition/Italian style cappas using Inker Tina 180ml cups typically using 30g/70ml of espresso (16-18g of beans typically) plus ~80-90ml of microfoam. And yes I realize this ratio is also stretching the definition of a cappuccino...but very similar to what we were served at the higher end roaster cafes in Florence Italy last fall.

Every cappuccino I make allows the bean and roast to shine. Sometimes its easier to taste what the espresso is all about in these than straight espresso. Yeah I know that sounds counter intuitive but it is what it is.

So for me it really is related to how much milk the espresso is hiding in

I agree with you that "perfect" cappuccino exists and yeah, a small cappuccino should be about 1:1 ratio if prepared the Italian way. Remember, cortado is a southamerican definition for what in italy would be a small-dark cappuccino. Also, Cappuccino and cortados are not a black and white thing, there is some sort of fuzziness to it; the espresso to milk ratio or ristretto to milk ratio can make very different tasting drinks, and it depends on personal taste. That's why some people order their cappuccinos as "large and dark" or "small and dark" or "small and light coloured" (if the cafe allows).

I have to disagree with you when you say that sometimes it is easier to taste what the espresso is all about with milk. This is absolute nonsense, espresso and milk are completely different beverages, and when mixed together they make a new hybrid kind of thing. Espresso is a lot about its layered complexity of flavours: chocolate flavours on top, a mixed of heavenly intense goodness in the middle, and sweet smooth caramels at the end. And also about the density (mass to volume ratio) of the drink: A good espresso should feel dense in the mouth, which adds to the tasting pleasure and intensifies the the complexity of its layers.

Adding milk to espresso changes the balance of everything, it adds a new liquid which mixes with the espresso changing its density and mixing the espresso layers. It also adds an incredible amount of sugars and even tasty fats (milk has A LOT of sugar) which completely masks the strong flavours of the espresso. It is a new beverage, which some like more than espresso, and it is about personal taste. Yes, you can still taste the coffee, and you might argue that you will taste what "coffee" is all about, but you can't say taste what "espresso" is all about, in my opinion. Because espresso has nothing to do with milk and vice-versa.

cannonfodder wrote:Milk covers many sins but even then, garbage still tastes like garbage and I strive for the best shot I can muster regardless of if it is going into a cappa or sipping straight.

Years ago I said that four ounces of milk covers a multitude of sins. It also covers a lot of the great flavor that a good double-shot of espresso holds.

Can you taste the difference between a bad pull and a good pull in a cappuccino? How would we know? There are people who can't tell a 98 point COE coffee and a cup made from Folgers preground.

You can take a double shot of bitter dregs that takes a good pair of sharp scissors to does into your cup, add 6 ounces of milk, two pumps of caramel syrup, one pump of mint syrup, and three inches of whipped cream and it will be delicious. *$$ has been doing it for years. But do you really want to limit yourself to only cappas? How about an Americano? A shot of espresso over vanilla ice cream?

If you only intended to make hamburgers, would you buy a BBQ that only held one patty?

spressomon wrote:Yep...everyone has an opinion

Something is always being added to the coffee bean. Heat. Pressure. Water. Soil. Climate. Roast profiles. Etc. Even a certain cup shape will, much like wine, impart its own signature. Each contributes something and also detracts something from the bean. I don't think there is purity in espresso...its IMHO still a big manipulation. Maybe not as much as dairy/sugar...dunno.

For me and how I make my milk drinks I am able to discern multiple layers of flavor within the espresso as well as sour, bitter, balanced, chocolate, caramel, nut, fruit, acidity, etc. Much the way if you have a snifter/glass of good scotch or bourbon and you add a drop or three of water. The intensity of what is perceived at the palate level is a big difference! And technically its a dilution. But at the same time it enhances the flavors in the glass.

Every palate is different.

Yes I agree, but espresso is one thing and cappuccino another thing. Epresso is coffee beans mixed with water with a certain temperature at high pressure (more than 9 bar). There is absolutely no milk in it. That's why I am saying, you can argue you can taste the bean better in a cappuccino than straight espresso, but you can't say you can taste espresso better with milk, because it isn't strictly espresso anymore... To my palate cappuccino is too sweet (there's about 5-10gr of sugar in cappuccino, so I do believe it is a huge manipulation in the drink. However, I've tested excellent cappuccino made by a pro barista before, and yes there is an incredible complexity to it, but different than espresso. It is just a different beverage.

Randy G. wrote:
You can take a double shot of bitter dregs that takes a good pair of sharp scissors to does into your cup, add 6 ounces of milk, two pumps of caramel syrup, one pump of mint syrup, and three inches of whipped cream and it will be delicious. *$$ has been doing it for years. But do you really want to limit yourself to only cappas? How about an Americano? A shot of espresso over vanilla ice cream?

Yeah it will cover the bad espresso shot, but it will also taste like a sh**ty sweet cake from Walmart. Aka. it is not espresso.