I have been using a semi auto for 6 years now, and need a new machine (my semi-auto is a rebuild that now needs a lot more work).

There is a La Pavoni with an orange base that appears in good shape for $250. Would this work for a first lever? I don't often do more than a shot or two in the morning... and realize making shots for multiple people would be a problem.... What I am wondering is am I going to be disappointed with the shots from this machine? Am I signing up for a machine that will never give me good shots compared to a better/newer machine?

I use a Gaggia MDF, stepless modified, grinder which worked great for my semi-auto Livietta, will this work for the Pavoni?

any advice would be great... don't want to spend the money on something I am going to regret.

Thanks

Here's the thing with La Pavonis,

The learning curve is huge. Despite your espresso background, I almost garentee you will dump your first half-dozen shots. There is just so many more factors to fully manual level machines. But once you have it figured out, you will be pulling the best espresso you have ever tasted.

Usually you can pull 2-4 shots before the group gets too hot and they start tasting yucky. There are ways around that if you NEED to pull more shots. Ex: you can put a cold damp towel around the group between shots.

As for the machine, if is in good condition, go for it. If seller did not provide a picture of the chrome under the driptray, request it. That spot rusts very fast on Pavonis and is always the first do go.

Good luck!

Question for OP....

Is it a pre-millenium or a Millennium?

(Manufacture Date)

Millenium: year 2000+
Pre-Millenium: below 2000 year

Anyways, even though there's no pstats on a non millenium model.. the brass piston and ETC is a sign of great build quality.... the lack of p-stats means higher reliability (scaling a p-stat up will cause problems)

The 49mm group means you can use other baskets like the MCAL baskets from Elektra...

If you do get a pre-mill you should get the Professional (since it has a gauge, of which is important to manually toggle the minimo-massimo switches into the correct pressure)

Or you could mod a Europiccola.. to have a gauge IIRC i think OE has a video this

and a bit of trivia could be found about a model from La Pavoni named Mignon

It's a poor mans Europiccola and has NO STEAM WAND...

Lookie here...
http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_mi_eng.htm

zrieser wrote: There is a La Pavoni with an orange base that appears in good shape for $250.

That seems like a very good price for a working machine in good shape. Orange base could be a repaint, or perhaps one of the early (pre 1978) professional models. Or perhaps even a millennium anniversary EO-8 or PO-16 model from 2005: Preview of a new La Pavoni lever machine...

You can tell from the shape of the group if it's millennium or pre-millennium group. If you post a pic I'm sure we can tell you which.

zrieser wrote:Would this work for a first lever? I don't often do more than a shot or two in the morning... and realize making shots for multiple people would be a problem.... What I am wondering is am I going to be disappointed with the shots from this machine? Am I signing up for a machine that will never give me good shots compared to a better/newer machine?

It will give you great shots once you get the hang of it, and there's a huge amount of discussion and solid advice on this forum. One drawback in my opinion is that it's slow and clumsy for making a lot of coffees for guests, but you're already aware of that.

TheJavaCup77 wrote:there's no pstats on a non millenium model

Not strictly true. All professional models have pressurestats, and the later (mid through late 90's) pre-millennium europiccola's have pressurestats. On the europiccola you can tell from the switch - a red and white dual switch* -> no pressurestat model, and red single switch with green light -> pressurestat model. There are advantages and disadvantages to either.

*edit addition: Or of course a minimo-massimo switch on one of the older europiccolas. The no-pressurestat machines always have either a I - II or minimo-massimo switch.
Professionals always have a single lighted rocker switch - red in older models and green in newer models.

Remember: There are THREE fundamentally different generations of La Pavoni machines. The term premillenium is totally meaningless, because there are two REALLY different premillenium machines, 1961 to about 1974, and 1974 or so to 2000. Both of the first two generation types of machines use 49mm portafilters, although there are several different portafilter designs.

La Pavoni machines are strange in that some Europiccolas at least as early as 1990 seem to have been built with pressurestats, while some have two switches and two heating elements up to 2000! There ARE a LOT of La Pavoni Europiccolas made in the 1990s with pressurestats. The first generation machines tend to have no problem with overheating. It is the 1974 to 2000 ones that can because the top of the group is always filled with live steam once it has been bled properly. The first and third generation machines are heated by bringing in excess hot water from the reservoir to the space around a piston sleeve. The techniques involved in using first and third generation machines are very similar. The 1974 to 2000 ones are a different story in many ways. There are some things that you must do to make decent espresso with all three types. Contrary to what many may say, if you do things properly you will get perfect espresso every time. The problem is learning what properly is!!!!! I find I have to control everything, and then all goes well. I find that one MUST properly bleed groups on the 1974-2000 group machines or the shot is apt to be spongy, and the shot volume will be highly erratic. After the second shot something also must be done to prevent overheating. I never have problems filling a ramekin with water, drawing the water into the group by lifting the handle part way, counting to five, and lowering it, and then proceeding with the third shot! (And subsequent ones.) This is "no big deal."

Also it is a good idea to have the handle up, nearly ready to release steam and water when attaching the portafilter or else air will be drawn through the puck and likely shatter it. This will often create lousy espresso, and with a bottomless portafilter a mess. (Another approach is to raise the handle slowly enough. I am not patient enough to do that!)

Some water supplies are terrible. Contrary to what some preach, it is NOT necessary for espresso water to have Ca or Mg, because there is far more Ca and Mg in the BEANS than in the hardest water. What it does tend to need is bicarbonate ion. This stabilises the oxide coat on the boiler and also (to me) changes flavour of medium and light roast coffee substantially for the better. The Ca and Mg that forms the scale does nothing for flavour, it just messes up the boiler and decreases machine life. I do like the wine makers and use potassium bicarbonate in pure water. There is never scale, and the metal surfaces always have a good protective oxide coating. (And I do not end up getting overdosed with cupric ion from descaling operations.)

Looks like i missed those facts...

I stand corrected.. thanks guys

Damn.. this forum has a ton of information.. wonder what I'd do without this forum..