Oliver Strand's Take on Starbucks Reserve in Seattle

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Marshall
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#1: Post by Marshall »

NY Times food writer, Oliver Strand, has been one of the most perceptive writers on the Third Wave coffee scene. He has been a speaker at SCAA Symposium (most memorable line: "Stop using wine's vocabulary. Cheesemakers don't call their product 'milk wine.'") and is currently writing a book about the world of specialty coffee.

Readers may be interested in his take on the new Starbucks Reserve roastery and shop in Seattle, posted today on Yahoo! Food: https://www.yahoo.com/food/peek-inside- ... 00956.html. Preview: he likes no lines and was impressed by the coffee.
Marshall
Los Angeles

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keno
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#2: Post by keno »

Thanks for posting Marshall!

Two comments. First, they didn't get rid of the line when I was there.

Second, when Oliver Strand writes:
I know that it will take a seismic shift for an espresso that elegant will make it to the menu at the Starbucks around the corner from where I work, never mind the one at the airport I stumble past on my way to a 7 a.m. flight, but a boy can dream.
I think he nails THE critical issue. Because if this roastery does not change the 20,000 odd local Starbucks it means nothing. It would be like if McDonalds used its massive resources to create a single flagship gourmet burger joint. Who cares if their burgers at ALL their other locations suck. In fact it would only serve as a reminder of how bad they are and would infuriate their customers who want and expect better quality. Even more so in the case of Starbucks since their coffee is expensive while McDonalds burgers are cheap.

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Marshall (original poster)
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#3: Post by Marshall (original poster) »

As long as companies keep separate branding for their different product lines, customers of the high-end versions usually don't object. The high end versions are either good and worth your money or they aren't. Your local Daily Grill is the popular-priced version of the original and very expensive The Grill on the Alley in Beverly Hills (and elsewhere now). Agents, studio heads and celebrities still crowd it for lunch every day and don't consider it tainted by its Daily Grill brothers.

Likewise the many mid-market models sold by upscale car manufacturers. It's not about religious dogma. It's just a steak, a car or, in Starbucks' case, a cup of coffee. If I'm enjoying a cup at Starbucks Reserve, why would I care what they serve at a regular Starbucks down the hill? BTW more Reserve shops will be opening around the country shortly.
Marshall
Los Angeles

Intrepid510
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#4: Post by Intrepid510 »

His experience seems to contradict some of the experiences posted by the users here. However, next time I make it to Seattle I will have to check it out just for curiosity alone.

I don't know if it infuriates anyone if the Reserve store ends up being a really nice Starbucks that serves good coffee. It's just something that is different that people will enjoy trying it out, it's a lot like with Strand says about it being equal to a concept car. I love looking at concept cars, but sadly most don't make it out to productions with as many risks. What this might mean is that Starbucks will be able to take what works in the Reserve stores and maybe make changes years from now in their traditional stores if all goes well.

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yakster
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#5: Post by yakster »

Decades ago I occasionally worked at Denny's Headquarters when it was located in La Mirada, CA. This was back in the day when they owned Winchell's Donuts and I believe that they had test kitchens in the facilities and I know for a fact that they had donuts in the break rooms. :lol:

About a block away from headquarters there was a Denny's restaurant, it was the finest Denny's with the best service and they used this restaurant to try out different things. There was always the threat that you'd be serving one of the executives in this restaurant. I imagine a similar concept could be at play here with the Starbucks Reserve Roastery and Tasting Room. They'll be able to try out different things and show it off to the Executives, partners, clients, etc. and maybe something will escape into the general Starbucks population.

I did enjoy dropping in during the SCAA Expo, it was very impressive but the one or two coffees that I tried did still have roast notes and were roasted into second crack. It would have been nice to have been able to stay in the library/reading room and peruse the Illy and other important coffee books that they have there, but we had a lot to see and do that day.
-Chris

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cmin
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#6: Post by cmin »

Intrepid510 wrote:His experience seems to contradict some of the experiences posted by the users here. However, next time I make it to Seattle I will have to check it out just for curiosity alone.

I don't know if it infuriates anyone if the Reserve store ends up being a really nice Starbucks that serves good coffee. It's just something that is different that people will enjoy trying it out, it's a lot like with Strand says about it being equal to a concept car. I love looking at concept cars, but sadly most don't make it out to productions with as many risks. What this might mean is that Starbucks will be able to take what works in the Reserve stores and maybe make changes years from now in their traditional stores if all goes well.
Though I've not been there, some friends have that live/work by in Seattle and have been multiple times. So far none have been impressed, at least with the coffee, the space is incredibly awesome, but they said the coffee while better than the regular stores just isn't as good as all the surrounding shops and roasters in the area. Let alone its more expensive to drink there, kinda like its a novelty. When I was just in Chicago, I walked past a Starbucks advertising their Reserve beans, figured what the hell. Went in and asked for pour over, no thanks, just mehhhhh. Whether that was a fault of the beans, or person doing pour oer or grinder whatever, don't know, but it sucked vs the "good" shops in Chitown.

Not sure what changes they could make though, don't see the regular stores roasting themselves, or going back to manual machines and grinders vs their push button superautos. They want that control and consistency no matter how bad it is, you could fly to Japan and it would taste exactly the same as the coffee from them right before the flight lol. Thats what they want (consistency). I'd be surprised if they went back to the manual way especially after the coin and investment they dropped on the new superautos in all their stores.

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russel
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#7: Post by russel »

I had a cup of Clover brewed Peruvian this afternoon at my local Starbucks (my son got a gift card which has kept him furnished in cake pops for several weeks). It was just about everything I think I could reasonably expect from the high end of what Starbucks has to offer. It was all roast born flavors, but in a completely pleasant and drinkable way, and devoid of that ashen flavor that I associate with chain shops. It had a slight bite of over extraction as it cooled. It certainly wasn't putting forward much of the advertised "candied lemon", but maybe to a regular customer it might. I think it was almost the coffee that I wish I could serve to the lost Starbucks drinkers who come into one of the shops asking for something bold, but would never actually be willing to roast and publicly take credit for serving. I could handle doing it as a private label job...
russel at anacidicandbitterbeverage dot com

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Boldjava
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#8: Post by Boldjava »

I looked high and low for a lever. No luck, so I asked a staff member. She said, "what's a lever."

Found another bar-keep and asked him. He said, "Sorry, we don't have a lever."

How do you dump XX millions in a place like that and have a lever fall off the planning room table?
-----
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vze26m98
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#9: Post by vze26m98 »

The recent Ken Davids reviews both Starbucks Reserve roasteries with a comparison to Allegro, Blue Bottle and Victrola:

http://www.coffeereview.com/starbucks-reserve/

(Sadly, I think the detail reviews are now pay-walled.)

His conclusion was that Starbucks was indiscriminate in their approach to roasting, as well as tending toward the dark side. I had some trouble keeping which coffees were available only in Seattle, and which could be had at any of their Reserve Roasteries, but I believe he found the lack of attention to be a problem in both places.

All the other roasters did better. I was shocked at the $40/8oz. tag on the Starbucks Brazil Sitio Baixadao. You could buy some pretty nice Howell roasts at that price.

Charles

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Eastsideloco
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#10: Post by Eastsideloco »

vze26m98 wrote:I was shocked at the $40/8oz. tag on the Starbucks Brazil Sitio Baixadao. You could buy some pretty nice Howell roasts at that price.
To be fair, you can also buy limited release coffees from George Howell at a similar price point.

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